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re: Assuming that the Rob Ryan rumors are false.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:01 pm to TigerBait1127
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:01 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Because they were here before him
At least know what you're talking about
2012 Saints Defensive coaches:
Defensive Coordinator – Steve Spagnuolo
Defensive Line – Bill Johnson
Assistant Defensive Line – Travis Jones
Secondary – Ken Flajole
Assistant Secondary – Andre Curtis
Assistant Secondary – Mike Mallory
2013 Saints Defensive coaches:
Defensive Coordinator – Rob Ryan
Defensive Line – Bill Johnson
Secondary – Wesley McGriff
Assistant Secondary – Andre Curtis
Defensive Assistant – Marcus Ungaro
Defensive Assistant/Linebackers – Brian Young
1
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:03 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
Where are Dennis Allen and Joe Vitt?
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:03 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
When the defense still sucks arse, I'm going to laugh heartily. Ryan's just the goat right now everyone wants to blame. He's got nothing consistent to work with right now people. Dennis Allen is not going to miraculously fix all of our issues.
I'd like to think poor tackling and coverage breakdowns have a lot to do with the coaching scheme. Not trying to say Allen will fix it, but Rob Ryan has certainly made a lot of questionable decisions. I'm not sure why we struggle with covering tight ends so much, which leads me to believe that isn't always the fault of the players, rather with the scheme as well.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:04 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Where are Dennis Allen and Joe Vitt?
Sounds like you are saying that's who needs to go, then. Correct?
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:07 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
quote:
Sounds like you are saying that's who needs to go, then. Correct?
Where did I say that?
Their history with the saints far outdates Ryan
I'm saying your OP was retarded and lacks logic, especially with a bye week coming up
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:09 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Where did I say that?
Their history with the saints far outdates Ryan
So if it's not Dennis Allen and its not Joe Vitt, who is to fault for our near last ranked defense? I'm trying to walk you through your argument here.
because according to you earlier:
quote:
Not really a reason to do it all imo, the position coach's are a bigger problem
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:11 pm to KindaRaw
Also, a lot of people bashed on Gregg Williams for overly blitzing, and even though him and RR are cut from the same coaching tree cloth, Gregg's defenses were able to force a lot of game changing turnovers that I hardly ever see from Rob's D (granted, this year has been statistically better with turnovers than the last two years I believe.) My point being, you guys can make the argument for injuries, but at the end of the day certain players fit certain schemes. Maybe we've come to the realization that Rob's scheme does not bring out the best in all of our players, to which I realize is hard for any D coordinator to accomplish.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:13 pm to KindaRaw
quote:
Gregg's defenses were able to force a lot of game changing turnovers that I hardly ever see from Rob's D (granted, this year has been statistically better with turnovers than the last two years I believe.)
Did we force many turnovers in 10 or 11?
And what does it mean cut from the same cloth. Ryan prefers to rush 4
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:15 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
quote:
So if it's not Dennis Allen and its not Joe Vitt
Our young LB's have looked good and Ellerbe is damn good whenever healthy...you can't really complain about Vitt this year. Allen is dealing with injuries to Lewis & Byrd, Swann & Breaux are rookies, Browner is the last ranked cornerback in the league, & Rafael Bush is done for the year...I guess Allen gets a pass b/c the secondary is a complete mess in that regard. Bill Johnson has been here long enough though. We need a new DL coach imo. Some of those defensive assistants might need to go as well, but it's hard to evaluate them unless you actually watch the practices.
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:20 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
quote:
So if it's not Dennis Allen and its not Joe Vitt, who is to fault for our near last ranked defense? I'm trying to walk you through your argument here.
My argument is that the DC should be able to bring in his own people when he comes in. So placing the blame on Ryan for having Payton's staff is silly. Vitt has yet to be able to develop a linebacker, our dline is consistently terrible, and we've regressed in the secondary under Allen. Our highest paid players are injured, suck, or are off the team. Ryan wasn't even consulted about bringing Byrd in
I've already made the point about cap spending.
So which position coach do you promote? Their track records aren't any better than Ryan's, and they are going to be limited by the same issues
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:23 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Vitt has yet to be able to develop a linebacker
I actually wouldn't complain if we brought in someone new to develop Anthony & Kikaha. It would be unfortunate if Vitt didn't get their full potential developed. Allen has been dealt a pretty shitty hand imo...I say give him more time. Bill Johnson has worn out his welcome.
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:29 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Did we force many turnovers in 10 or 11?
And what does it mean cut from the same cloth. Ryan prefers to rush 4
When I was talking about being cut from the same cloth, I was referring to them both being mentored by Buddy Ryan. Yeah, they don't have the exact same philosophies, but there are certainly some similarities here and there.
2010 we forced the 2nd most fumbles in the NFL and statistically had a very good defense as far as yardage and points are concerned. 2011 we forced the 4th most fumbles but gave up a lot of passing yards. We were pretty much in the middle of the pack with sacks those two years, and near the bottom in interceptions both years.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:35 pm to KindaRaw
quote:
2010 we forced the 2nd most fumbles in the NFL and statistically had a very good defense as far as yardage and points are concerned. 2011 we forced the 4th most fumbles but gave up a lot of passing yards. We were pretty much in the middle of the pack with sacks those two years, and near the bottom in interceptions both years.
This was the answer to my question:
2010: 20th in turnovers
2011: 31st in turnovers
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:38 pm to GMoney2600
quote:
. Allen has been dealt a pretty shitty hand imo...I say give him more time. Bill Johnson has wore out his welcome.
I don't disagree with that at all.
But Ryan has the same shitty hand for this season at a position that has been a weakness.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:43 pm to TigerBait1127
I agree. I'm not calling for a new DC. If CSP thinks that Ryan can get the job done with healthy players & better assistants...then I say keep him. Hopefully CSP makes the right decision. This has to be the end of Bill Johnson though, b/c his best years were average at best. His normal year is a bottom 3rd DL. Cam Jordan & Kevin Williams are saving his arse this year. John Jenkins isn't too shabby I guess & he failed with Akiem Hicks. Richardson has a ton of talent, but still has stupid random penalties in key spots of the game. We need someone new to develop Jenkins, Davison, & Richardson imo.
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:46 pm to GMoney2600
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:54 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
This was the answer to my question:
2010: 20th in turnovers
2011: 31st in turnovers
2010 can slide because we were 4th in total yards and 7th in points. The reason that season ended was b/c we tackled poorly for one game. Other than that, the defense was solid.
2011 defense was 24th in total yards and 13th in points. Yeah, the numbers in turnovers aren't there b/c the interceptions sucked, but the D got more stops than we will ever see on this RR D.
It was probably a mistake to mention Williams and turnovers together, but I still think he was a better D coord than Rob will ever be.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 2:07 pm to KindaRaw
quote:That's because we played the 2-14 Panthers twice, the NFC West when it was the worst division in NFL history, and the AFC North which was known for defense more than offensive explosiveness
2010 can slide because we were 4th in total yards and 7th in points.
The highest ranked offense we played against that year was the 14th ranked Steelers (or 7th ranked Dallas without Tony Romo on Thanksgiving)
The 2010 defense was overrated all year and got exposed by Seattle
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 2:20 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:Exactly. Until Payton allows his DC and OC to hire their own assistants/position coaches, it will not get better. His insistence on keeping his friends employed give the coordinators no ability to run their offense/defense how it is intended to run. They have no control and are just puppets.
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it during a bye week? Not really a reason to do it all imo, the position coach's are a bigger problem
Posted on 11/13/15 at 2:23 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
quote:Because a DC should be able to pick his staff if he is going to be held accountable. Vitt and/or Allen could or could not be part of the problem, but Ryan was not allowed to decide.
quote: Where did I say that? Their history with the saints far outdates Ryan So if it's not Dennis Allen and its not Joe Vitt, who is to fault for our near last ranked defense? I'm trying to walk you through your argument here. because according to you earlier: quote:Not really a reason to do it all imo, the position coach's are a bigger problem
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