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re: who once said they'd trade Biyombo for Ryno?
Posted on 5/26/16 at 1:20 pm to corndeaux
Posted on 5/26/16 at 1:20 pm to corndeaux
quote:
eBron would do the same in the playoffs, regardless of about 10 possessions in the regular season. Klay Thompson can't guard LeBron in the post, Holiday wouldn't fare any better.
I agree his advantage isn't he's a great defender vs. bigs as much as he's better or different than the bigs are expecting. It's confusion not mismatch, and that would be of more limited value in a playoff series, but I'd rather the guy that can pull out some tricks in the regular season than the guy who can't.
quote:
I think you're putting way too much stock in having just one, good, complementary 2 way player
No, I want more than 1. I want at least 5 so you have 3-4 on the floor much of the time. But you don't get to 5 by giving away 1 of the 3 you have. And since this is based off a fantasy trade, let's pretend Brown goes early and either Hield/Dunn and Bender are on the board. In that case I'd trade Bender (#6) to Boston for Avery Bradley and filler assets, then I'd be a lot more comfortable making the Jrue trade because you've immediately replaced him with another 2 way combo guard.
quote:
End of the day, it's just a shame the Pelicans bungled the Davis rebuild so badly.
Yeah, we fans often don't know what we're talking about, but pretty much every move Demps has made where about half the fans here have been against it, has come back to bite us hard.
1
Posted on 5/26/16 at 3:57 pm to VOR
Hey, anything is possible. And I hope for the best. No doubt about it- this summer will be wild. If the Pelicans had built up a better foundation, things could happen. But to me, there just aren't many paths that give a lot of hope for sustained success at the current moment.
I hope I am wrong.
I hope I am wrong.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:00 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Hey, anything is possible. And I hope for the best. No doubt about it- this summer will be wild. If the Pelicans had built up a better foundation, things could happen. But to me, there just aren't many paths that give a lot of hope for sustained success at the current moment.
I hope I am wrong.
I feel the exact same way.
But hey, you have to start sometime. We can't keep going every year with no young talent to groom into future starters or role players.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:00 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Hey, anything is possible. And I hope for the best. No doubt about it- this summer will be wild. If the Pelicans had built up a better foundation, things could happen. But to me, there just aren't many paths that give a lot of hope for sustained success at the current moment.
Which is why we need to hit a few singles in the draft/FA this year. Solid, unspectacular moves. Set up for the future. Hit some doubles and triples next year.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:03 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I hope for the best
I'm curious about the rumored "can't trade our 1st" directive. It could signal a change in direction or could just be a band aid applied to what is the most widely criticized part of Demps' build strategy.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:09 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm curious about the rumored "can't trade our 1st" directive. It could signal a change in direction or could just be a band aid applied to what is the most widely criticized part of Demps' build strategy.
If Heild/Dunn are the two you want, and they aren't there, i don't have a problem trading the pick, but you better get back 2 firsts, or a good player and a first.
I don't want to give up our pick this year, without getting another one this year or next.
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
But you don't get to 5 by giving away 1 of the 3 you have.
Bird in the hand, etc. Sure. Counter- nothing risked, nothing gained.
You can get there, in time, if you move that 1 guy for 2 lottery picks, which you can add to your own two over the next two years. I like my odds of getting to 5+ over the next 3-4 seasons better this way than keeping Holiday, hoping for health, that he re-signs, and then a max guy signs on w/ a 40-45 win Pels team next year.
It can't be just for the next 2 seasons. It can't continue to be about that for this franchise. They need to build something that is sustainable. They are in such a hurry to avoid Davis leaving that they aren't doing anything to make him want to stay.
So we're in dream world. You turned down Nurkic/7 for Holiday. Choose your own adventure- what do you see happening instead?
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:35 pm to Fun Bunch
Amen.
If they can get through the summer doing something like that, I'll be happy. I do believe they can get back into the playoff race w/ health.
It's more fear that they will do something dumb that has me bummed out already
If they can get through the summer doing something like that, I'll be happy. I do believe they can get back into the playoff race w/ health.
It's more fear that they will do something dumb that has me bummed out already
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:38 pm to corndeaux
quote:
It's more fear that they will do something dumb
Posted on 5/26/16 at 11:08 pm to corndeaux
quote:
So we're in dream world. You turned down Nurkic/7 for Holiday. Choose your own adventure- what do you see happening instead?
- Draft Dunn at #6 then a big and a wing with the 2nds.
- Trade Cunningham to OKC for Morrow
- Sign Jared Dudley
- Trade Tyreke for a 2018 1st. If Ryno was rumored to get that, why not Tyreke? Take 2nds or a 2019 1st if that's all you can get, we've drafted Dunn you need to move Tyreke.
- I don't know if Terrence Jones/Solomon Hill are the best options to spend our cap space on, but I like the principle of a younger, more balanced Ryno replacement and taking a flyer on a young wing with 1st round talent.
Jrue/Dunn/Frazier
QPon/Morrow/BDJ
Dudley/Hill/#39
AD/Jones
Asik/Ajinca/#40
Not spectacular but should be solid enough to get back to the playoffs if healthy. You also have a better mix of talent, QPon and Dudley are the veteran leaders that are actually playing enough to have their opinion heard. You have quite a few developmental guys to push the young vets ahead of them, and hopefully #40 can make Ajinca expendable by the deadline and if you're lucky be ready to take Asik's place in a year.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 8:05 am to TigerinATL
That's a fine plan and, realistically, the best case scenario for this summer (give or take FA/draft preferences)
A couple of follow ups-
What happens if Dunn is off the board?
What happens next summer and beyond?
A couple of follow ups-
What happens if Dunn is off the board?
What happens next summer and beyond?
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 8:06 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 8:08 am to TigerinATL
quote:
- Draft Dunn at #6 then a big and a wing with the 2nds.
- Trade Cunningham to OKC for Morrow
- Sign Jared Dudley
- Trade Tyreke for a 2018 1st. If Ryno was rumored to get that, why not Tyreke? Take 2nds or a 2019 1st if that's all you can get, we've drafted Dunn you need to move Tyreke.
- I don't know if Terrence Jones/Solomon Hill are the best options to spend our cap space on, but I like the principle of a younger, more balanced Ryno replacement and taking a flyer on a young wing with 1st round talent.
Jrue/Dunn/Frazier
QPon/Morrow/BDJ
Dudley/Hill/#39
AD/Jones
Asik/Ajinca/#40
Not spectacular but should be solid enough to get back to the playoffs if healthy. You also have a better mix of talent, QPon and Dudley are the veteran leaders that are actually playing enough to have their opinion heard. You have quite a few developmental guys to push the young vets ahead of them, and hopefully #40 can make Ajinca expendable by the deadline and if you're lucky be ready to take Asik's place in a year.
As corndeaux said, that's as reasonable as any proposal and within the realm of possibility.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 8:39 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Jrue/Dunn/Frazier
QPon/Morrow/BDJ
Dudley/Hill/#39
AD/Jones
Asik/Ajinca/#40
not spectacular at all, and i would think we'd still have $10+million in cap space. Dudley/Hill/Jones aren't going to eat up $30+ million, which we would have if Reke is gone.
I don't mind the DC for Morrow, but wing players of QPon/Hill/Dudley/Morrow rekes of unathletic guys that do nothing but sit in a spot waiting to shoot a 3, with average to below average defense.
I like all 4 of those guys, but they can't be the 4 wing players we primarily play.
While it does look a lot more realistic, b/c i like living in fantasy land, it looks like a lineup that would struggle to defend and create open looks, since Jrue and Dunn would be the only guys on the team that could penetrate a defense. I would not expect to make the playoffs with that lineup, unless AD is the MVP and Jrue ends up signing a $20 million a year contract at the end of the season, and we would lose in the first round and still have very little in the department of possible young talent.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:20 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Jrue/Dunn/Frazier
QPon/Morrow/BDJ
Dudley/Hill/#39
AD/Jones
Asik/Ajinca/#40
Not spectacular but should be solid enough to get back to the playoffs if healthy.
I know that's a realistic offseason, but I sadly don't see where we're going to consistently get our scoring from with that lineup. Jrue would have to be ultra aggressive on offense or you have high expectations for Hill.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:58 am to corndeaux
quote:
What happens if Dunn is off the board?
I still have a lot of reservations about how well Hield fits what Gentry wants. Hield can be more than just a 15 ppg role playing scorer, but would he be allowed to be? And if not, is he worth drafting? If we plan to get the most out of Hield you draft him, if not you trade back/out.
quote:
What happens next summer and beyond?
Have enough financial flexibility that you can either sign the guy you need like Hayward, or trade for a guy someone else doesn't need like Tobias Harris or the Morris Twins. I'm expecting a lot of player movement in 2017. That's really the best you can do. I have no silver bullet, that ship sailed when we didn't win the lottery. Our best hope is that Gentry and Erman can work some Whole > Sum of Parts magic.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:08 am to WB504
I don't like spending money on Jones. He is super injury prone and has looked bad recently. He also is a pure 4. He can't guard 3's or 5's and is average to below average from 3.
Solomon Hill can play 3 and small ball 4. I think he is a very good fit position wise and still has some upside. Cheaper versatile rotation type player. Jrue/Reke/Qpon/Hill/AD is an interesting lineup. If you can add another 2/3 wing like a Bazemore, Crabbe, or Fournier, then you have some nice depth and versatility. Qpon and Hill could split minutes at the 3 depending on the size of the opponent.
Solomon Hill can play 3 and small ball 4. I think he is a very good fit position wise and still has some upside. Cheaper versatile rotation type player. Jrue/Reke/Qpon/Hill/AD is an interesting lineup. If you can add another 2/3 wing like a Bazemore, Crabbe, or Fournier, then you have some nice depth and versatility. Qpon and Hill could split minutes at the 3 depending on the size of the opponent.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:12 am to TigerinATL
quote:
still have a lot of reservations about how well Hield fits what Gentry wants. Hield can be more than just a 15 ppg role playing scorer, but would he be allowed to be?
Buddy can shoot from outside efficiently on volume, but not much more than that. He doesn't pass and is very average on defense. Because he carried so much of the load in college on offense I don't know if he can become a capable passer and defender with betetr teammates and less effort expended on defense. I think Dunn would fit our system better and be safer than Hield. That #6 pick is so up in the air. I hope we can land a big with potential like chinau onuaku in the second.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 10:17 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:24 am to NOFOX
quote:
I hope we can land a big with potential like chinau onuaku in the second.
completely agree.
We need to get lucky for once in the draft. we need a 2nd round guy to turn into a contributor. I especially like Onuaku, more than AJ Hammons who seems to be the big that is projected to go around where our picks are. I also think Caris LeVert is an injury proned guy that has the potential to be a good wing player. He shot over 40% from 3 for his college career.
close to 20% of 2nd rounders turn into some type of contributor, while the rest are worthless and mostly never even play a minute in the nba. We've had 1 second round pick in the last 10 years that was ours and not traded away before the draft or during the draft. Hard to win the powerball if you never buy a ticket.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 12:29 pm to TigerinATL
So fundamentally we differ on the next two seasons in this hypo. I'm willing to forgo the playoffs for the next two years if it means a huge infusion of young, cheap talent. You're not and relying instead of next summer to add FA or make a trade to hopefully lift the team to 50 win range.
Sound about right? Neither option is particularly attractive, if the goal is to keep Davis for a 3rd contract.
One more question: say they do end up with the 7/8 seed this year- does that mean Demps is running the ship for another summer?
I don't get what that means or is referring to. Can you elaborate?
I assume you mean the next version of those deals and not those actual players. I agree, taking advantage of teams/FO in turmoil should always be a strategy.
I'm still curious if Demps asked about or was approached about a Harris deal.
I think so too. Much more in terms of trades, but what assets are the Pels sending out that will net good return? This summer should be fairly instructional because next summer will basically be a repeat.
I believe I saw a projected $107M cap with a $127M luxury tax.
Sound about right? Neither option is particularly attractive, if the goal is to keep Davis for a 3rd contract.
One more question: say they do end up with the 7/8 seed this year- does that mean Demps is running the ship for another summer?
quote:
I still have a lot of reservations about how well Hield fits what Gentry wants. Hield can be more than just a 15 ppg role playing scorer, but would he be allowed to be?
I don't get what that means or is referring to. Can you elaborate?
quote:
trade for a guy someone else doesn't need like Tobias Harris or the Morris Twins
I assume you mean the next version of those deals and not those actual players. I agree, taking advantage of teams/FO in turmoil should always be a strategy.
I'm still curious if Demps asked about or was approached about a Harris deal.
quote:
I'm expecting a lot of player movement in 2017
I think so too. Much more in terms of trades, but what assets are the Pels sending out that will net good return? This summer should be fairly instructional because next summer will basically be a repeat.
I believe I saw a projected $107M cap with a $127M luxury tax.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 3:48 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I'm willing to forgo the playoffs for the next two years if it means a huge infusion of young, cheap talent. You're not and relying instead of next summer to add FA or make a trade to hopefully lift the team to 50 win range.
It's almost like you're playing scratch off lottery tickets with #7 and Nurkic and I'm playing the PowerBall hoping that a competitive core can attract better pieces in FA/trades. Sadly both are long shots of keeping AD is the goal.
quote:
One more question: say they do end up with the 7/8 seed this year- does that mean Demps is running the ship for another summer?
I didn't need that thought to enter my brain
I don't think Demps is a moron, but I do worry he's both situationally and ideologically locked into a Win Now with this core plan that is bad. If he does some form of the "reasonable offseason" then perhaps it means he's taken a step back from the corner he was painted into and there's hope. quote:
I don't get what that means or is referring to. Can you elaborate?
Ryno could score 25 ppg if you let him, but we've seen what happens with Ryno as the primary option and it's not pretty. I see Buddy as similar. If you're not going to ride his scoring talent to it's fullest because he's a blackhole that needs to be reigned in, would you be better off using #6 on someone else and picking up a scoring/spacing SG in FA or trade.
quote:
I'm still curious if Demps asked about or was approached about a Harris deal.
I don't think he was. There were rumors that we kicked the tires a bit before Harris signed his deal with Orlando, so the interest from Demps was there. With all of the FO execs on podcasts stressing trust and relationships to make sure deals don't leak or your offer don't get shopped to leverage other teams against you, I just don't see them offering that to the Pels unless Stan passed. I think our name got pulled into it because Stan gave a 3 way trade of Harris for Ryno legit consideration.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 3:49 pm
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