re: who once said they'd trade Biyombo for Ryno?

quote:

---

a cheaper version of Asik,

---

that's understating it a bit.
he's a lot cheaper, can actually finish at the rim, and can actually jump to block peoples shots.

He's a better and cheaper version of Asik.

quote:

---

which is why some posters advocated going after him rather than resigning Asik.

---

yes i did. I advocated for Biyombo and Seraphin as better options at center that make under $3M.

quote:

---

which is why some posters advocated going after him rather than resigning Asik.

---

This was a semi-popular opinion at the time, especially considering what they both signed for. Hell. I didn't even like Biyombo at the time but I thought about it.

quote:

---

Perhaps Bioyombo would have taken a longer contract if one had been offered.

---

Hindsight says at the very least you offer him what we gave Ajinca, and I bet he'd have taken $20 million guaranteed. I understand why they wanted the more proven player, but it still pisses me off that Asik got that many years. Even if Asik didn't have age/injury issues, it was pretty obvious his usefullness would be limited within a year or 2 because of AD's growth. And if MM sources were correct and the contract was designed with stretching after year 3 in mind...if you have that little confidence in him as a long term fit you definitely forget that you gave up a pick to get him and kick the tires on someone cheaper like Biyombo.

I didn't know it was a player option. Thought it was a 2 year deal with a team option.

quote:

---

When Biyombo opts out and gets at least what Asik got, would you want to sign him?

---

absolutely not

quote:

---

If you say yes I'll know you're lying because that goes against your core principle on center spending.

---

that is correct. i believe there are serviceable centers in the league, that fit what we need, that make under $5M.
Unless we get a center who is a dominant game changing force, i don't want to pay a lot for a center, and even then i still would only be happy doing that if we already had some young wing player that was a budding superstar on a cheap contract.

All guys that will be cheaper than Asik next year that are FA:
Zaza is still a cheap guy that provides a good service. He's about as bad at finishing as Asik, but he's had a good year in Dallas
Mahinmi is a guy that won't cost much that can give us more than Asik.
Both Speights and Ezeli will be given a shot in FA, with Speights probably not costing much. I don't see him as much of a starter though, and he just doesn't seem like much of a defender. Ezeli might fetch too much.
Mozgov lost him a lot of money this past year. Had he been a free agent last summer he would have gotten $15M, He'll probably still be in the $5M range.
Miles Plumlee can be had this summer for cheap, and will definitely bring more energy than Asik. That's who i would want.
Hibbert will be cheap, and if you want a low post guy to play 10-15 minutes against the few good bigs left in the league, he could play that role.
Nene would be a nice PF/C to match with AD offensively, although his defense isn't good at all.

Would i mind paying Al Jefferson Asik money, not really, but it wouldn't bother me that much. If he can be had for under $10M i'd like him. Same for Noah. Not sure if they will be under $10M though.

There are also multiple centers on rookie contracts on Boston and Denver that would be available for trades this offseason, especially with all the draft picks they have.

Would you consider, if we get Dunn, trading Jrue to Denver for Nurkic or Jokic and their 7th?
I don't know if Denver would go for that, or if i'd be happy with that but i'd rather Dunn/Brown/Nurkic than Dunn/expiringJrue. Find a way to dump Ajinca and get 2 decent wings in FA like Crabbe and Bazemore, if possible. Keep Tyreke and try to trade him later in the season if possible, but he'd help out Dunn as a PG to start the season.

quote:

---

Would you consider, if we get Dunn, trading Jrue to Denver for Nurkic or Jokic and their 7th?

---

No. I like Jrue a lot more than most, not because I think he's elite or anything, but 2 way players are becoming more valuable than ever and are hard to find. Plus if we get Dunn I think that means Tyreke is the player you move, and having Dunn and Frazier as your PGs is a rebuild strategy so it's not even remotely likely to happen.

quote:

---

Plus if we get Dunn I think that means Tyreke is the player you move,

---

I agree, i just don't think we could get rid of him.
Could he be someone we could give to Philly for a late first?
Luwawa, Prince, Bembry Damien Jones are projected to go around the 24 and 26 pick they have.


Problem with Jrue is he's expiring, and if he starts sucking, then we won't be able to move him, and if he does well, then he'll want $20M+ next year.

quote:

---

and having Dunn and Frazier as your PGs is a rebuild strategy so it's not even remotely likely to happen.

---

This is how we did something stupid and signed Asik to a 4 year deal, b/c we didn't want to appear to be rebuilding.
You can't just keep signing older guys and have zero draft picks or rookie/cheap contracts. At some point, you have to get younger, and expect your superstar to carry you and not appear to be rebuilding.
Portland appeared to be rebuilding, but Lillard had other plans.
There's no reason a healthy team with AD can't make the playoffs, while giving young players experience.

quote:

---

Would you consider, if we get Dunn, trading Jrue to Denver for Nurkic or Jokic and their 7th?

---

quote:

---

No.

---

You wouldn't trade expiring, injury prone Jrue Holiday for a rookie scale center and #7? You know I value your opinions, but that is nuts. Denver has something cooking with all their young guys. Jokic just put up an absurd season (:nb4pergamestats:) and Jurkic, even coming off injury, still has plenty of promise plus he is a total badass on the court.

Now, the whole scenario is pure fiction. Denver would never, ever, ever offer that deal. They wouldn't offer either center for Holiday straight up.

quote:

---

You wouldn't trade expiring, injury prone Jrue Holiday for a rookie scale center and #7?

---

Jokic + 7 for Jrue? I would in a heartbeat. Jokic's rookie season was really fantastic. Matt Moore recently tweeted that Jokic had a 21.5 PER season and Towns had 22.5. Towns is obviously much better, but Jokis is really good. We woudl have him cheap for years to come and another mid lottery pick. No way in hell Denver would give up Jokic and #7 for Jrue, but if they offered we should run to accept.

quote:

---

o way in hell Denver would give up Jokic and #7 for Jrue

---

Obviously. The deal teddyp put forth is complete fantasy. Like I said, they aren't offering either guy straight up for Holiday.

quote:

---

He is not injury prone. He has had one major injury, which did not respond well to mismanagement, but so far appears to have responded well to proper management

---

quote:

---

I would like to see him healthy for another full year

---

So he's just had one injury that has plagued him for 3 three years and we're still waiting to see how he reacts for the 4th year. But he's not injury prone...

quote:

---

As for not making the trade, I think making the playoffs this year is very important going forward

---

To the current management or in the best interests of the actual franchise? Current team clearly wants to make the playoffs. They forced their coach to apologize for calling out the delusion of playoffs when they were 13 games under .500 in March. Management is detached from reality.

But, if you had sane people running the show, I don't see how replenishing the talent base in this manner (again, fictional) isn't the best move. It's about being good 3-4 years from now.

quote:

---

For those that think Nurkic is great, imagine a younger Asik that shot even worse but took 16 shots per 36 instead of the 6 that Asik takes.

---

And the danger of only looking at basketball reference for knowledge rears its ugly head.

quote:

---

we need another year to figure out if the problem is the injury is chronic

---

Right. Don't call him injury prone. Call it chronic, whatever. They are going to spend the entirety of his contract dealing with his injury. Waiting another year to see what happens when *hypothetically* you can get a lottery pick and a rookie scale 5 with promise is nuts.

quote:

---

The draft alone is not going to be enough to convince AD to stay

---

Obviously. But as you point out, it gives you talent and cap space. It's like this is 2013 all over again.

quote:

---

Free Agency which means we need to be seen as an up and coming team again as soon as 2017,

---

Why? That is a self imposed, arbitrary deadline. Cap is expected to explode again in 2017. Davis is locked in for the rest of the decade. If they can infuse 3 recent lottery picks plus a 4th next year into the team by trading Holiday (which they can't), it's the better long term move for the team and for Davis than hoping Chris Paul decides to come back to NO or Gordon Hayward maxes out here because they got the 8 seed in 2016.

quote:

---

ut if he was Marc Gasol or even Jonas Valencunias in the making

---

No one said that. He's 21. He's flashed legit skills. He's on a rookie scale. He's a good bet over the next 5-7 years to turn into a decent player. He could also easily flame out.

quote:

---

why do you think it will get significantly better?

---

Well, for one, he was coming off a significant knee injury this season. He was out of shape in the 500 MP this year. Citing this season as evidence of much of anything is risky.

And I never said significantly better. Why does he have to be a Gasol/JVal offensive threat? The dude can rebound and defend. He's shown some ability in other areas. He's a tough, fiery, hard nosed player who talks shite to everyone. He's unpolished, like almost every 21 year old NBA player. So what?

IF we lived in a world where this was an option:

Nurkic, #6, #7, 2017 1st to be good in 3-4 years

I'd take that bet every single time over Holiday/Davis #6, maybe getting an 8 seed and then hoping a big ticket FA comes to NO in 2017.