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Started By
Message
re: What significant thing has Jrue done since being traded?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 3:33 pm to 504ByrdGang
Posted on 4/18/16 at 3:33 pm to 504ByrdGang
First, screw NBA.com for defaulting all the stats to Playoff stats and rubbing it in the face of fans of non playoff teams
Holiday passes to AD more effectively than anyone else on the team.
AD FG% off Pass from:
Holiday 54.7%
Evans 48.9%
Gordon 47.2%
Tyreke was injured this year you say? Well let's look at last year's numbers.
Holiday 57.8%
Gordon 55.3%
Evans 49.6%
Holiday lead the team in On Court Net Rating if you don't count partial season guys like Frazier. Granted it was still a negative number, -0.6, but last year he was 2nd behind AD in Net Rating among full time players as well at 3.5
Thanks to attacking the basket and getting to the line more he had his most efficient season in terms of TS% despite having a down year from 3. His PER was also a career high at 19.7.
I'm really not sure what you're aiming at here. If you're trying to say Holiday isn't good or is even "just a guy", that's silly. Is he a true #2? No, and we're still not even sure if he's a good fit to be the lead guard in Gentry's offense judging by journeymen being equally effective in that role, but I think it's undeniable that he's a difference maker for this team and a long term fit. Do I trade him or his cap space for a similarly capable wing? In a heartbeat. But considering that's not likely to happen and how bare the cupboard is, he's certainly not expendable which is what it feels like you're saying.
I don't think he's trash but I do wonder how well he can fit Gentry's system. With a different coach I think both would be fine, in fact I've said I think Thibs could break Tyreke into an All Star. But we're stuck with Gentry and have seen 2 undrafted journeyman PGs run the offense well, so you have to start asking who fits best and what's the best use of money and minutes.
You want to nitpick Holiday's defense but we've seen him slow down top guards in the league. You've pointed to games Tyreke won in the past with his offense but there were also games last year where Holiday's defense was the difference maker. December 2nd, 112-104 win against OKC. Westbrook 6/20 (30%) from the field. December 18th, 99-90 win over the Rockets, Harden 8/23 (34.8%) from the field. December 21st, 101-99 Pels beat OKC. IIRC this is the one where Jrue and Asik shut Westbrook down pretty dramatically in the last 2 minutes. Westbrook shot 37% for the game. Maybe he's like Ariza and he needs to work on his consistency, but we've seen him rise to the occasion against top competition in the past, so it's not like he's a bad or even mediocre defender.
Holiday passes to AD more effectively than anyone else on the team.
AD FG% off Pass from:
Holiday 54.7%
Evans 48.9%
Gordon 47.2%
Tyreke was injured this year you say? Well let's look at last year's numbers.
Holiday 57.8%
Gordon 55.3%
Evans 49.6%
Holiday lead the team in On Court Net Rating if you don't count partial season guys like Frazier. Granted it was still a negative number, -0.6, but last year he was 2nd behind AD in Net Rating among full time players as well at 3.5
Thanks to attacking the basket and getting to the line more he had his most efficient season in terms of TS% despite having a down year from 3. His PER was also a career high at 19.7.
I'm really not sure what you're aiming at here. If you're trying to say Holiday isn't good or is even "just a guy", that's silly. Is he a true #2? No, and we're still not even sure if he's a good fit to be the lead guard in Gentry's offense judging by journeymen being equally effective in that role, but I think it's undeniable that he's a difference maker for this team and a long term fit. Do I trade him or his cap space for a similarly capable wing? In a heartbeat. But considering that's not likely to happen and how bare the cupboard is, he's certainly not expendable which is what it feels like you're saying.
quote:
I don't think Tyreke is a great player but on here he's considered trash and hurts the team but we've done nothing but win with him starting.
I don't think he's trash but I do wonder how well he can fit Gentry's system. With a different coach I think both would be fine, in fact I've said I think Thibs could break Tyreke into an All Star. But we're stuck with Gentry and have seen 2 undrafted journeyman PGs run the offense well, so you have to start asking who fits best and what's the best use of money and minutes.
You want to nitpick Holiday's defense but we've seen him slow down top guards in the league. You've pointed to games Tyreke won in the past with his offense but there were also games last year where Holiday's defense was the difference maker. December 2nd, 112-104 win against OKC. Westbrook 6/20 (30%) from the field. December 18th, 99-90 win over the Rockets, Harden 8/23 (34.8%) from the field. December 21st, 101-99 Pels beat OKC. IIRC this is the one where Jrue and Asik shut Westbrook down pretty dramatically in the last 2 minutes. Westbrook shot 37% for the game. Maybe he's like Ariza and he needs to work on his consistency, but we've seen him rise to the occasion against top competition in the past, so it's not like he's a bad or even mediocre defender.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 3:55 pm to TeddyPadillac
Curry
Westbrook
Cp3
Wall
Lillard
Lowry
Conley
Bledsoe
Are all clear cut better than Jrue
Westbrook
Cp3
Wall
Lillard
Lowry
Conley
Bledsoe
Are all clear cut better than Jrue
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 4/18/16 at 3:58 pm to 504ByrdGang
I already said 4 of them were.
I'd give you Wall. Not Conley or Bledsoe.
Jrue is in that second tier of PG's from 6-15. In the right system, he can be an allstar (Isiah Thomas), on the wrong team, he's barely noticed (Rondo).
I'd give you Wall. Not Conley or Bledsoe.
Jrue is in that second tier of PG's from 6-15. In the right system, he can be an allstar (Isiah Thomas), on the wrong team, he's barely noticed (Rondo).
Posted on 4/18/16 at 4:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
So then he's not the untouchable core guy people paint him to be.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 4:16 pm to 504ByrdGang
What people?
No one thinks he's untouchable. It's just no one wants to trade him B/c no one thinks we will get equal value back.
With the way Ish and Frazier played, I'd be in favor of trading him for that difference maker at the 2 or 3.
No one thinks he's untouchable. It's just no one wants to trade him B/c no one thinks we will get equal value back.
With the way Ish and Frazier played, I'd be in favor of trading him for that difference maker at the 2 or 3.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 4:57 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
untouchable core guy
It's not that he's untouchable, PG is a deep enough position that if we needed to use him as an asset we could probably replace him without too much trouble. But since cashing him in for a wing upgrade isn't an actual option, we can't do better than Holiday for what he currently costs us. Even if he costs $20+ million to resign, his cap hold is only going to be $16 million, and considering this should be the last time we operate with significant cap space, we probably will not be able to find a better player with $16 million either.
This still all comes down to you disagreeing with the board on Tyreke fitting with Gentry. What makes you so sure he can? I wondered if Tyreke could do what Gentry wanted from the beginning because of his complaints about learning the playbook under Monty. He's already resisted the change Gentry was asking for to the point that Gentry felt the need to change some things for Tyreke. His talent isn't going to help him much when what he needs to change are his basketball instincts.
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:02 pm to 504ByrdGang
He put up 17-6-3 on 28 minutes this season, are those supposed to be bad stats? He's also a good on ball defender.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:30 pm to Epic Cajun
Serious question, because I don't know the answer...
In the new cap era, is Jrue worth the likely 20mm cost to resign him? Keep in mind that he is a two-way player, but also remember he isn't a top-10 player at his position.
In the new cap era, is Jrue worth the likely 20mm cost to resign him? Keep in mind that he is a two-way player, but also remember he isn't a top-10 player at his position.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:43 pm to Solo
No chance he gets 20 million. Too many good point guards out there.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:47 pm to gmoney504
Same way Asik got 12 Jrue will get 20. We need him and have no way to replace him.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:47 pm to Epic Cajun
Garbage stats on a garbage team with a stupid high usage.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 5:55 pm to Solo
I'm on my phone so this is all memory, but the new $108 million cap when Jrue will be a FA is roughly 85% more than the cap he signed his current deal under. $11 with an 85% increase is $20 million.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:20 pm to TigerinATL
Didn't we already have this conversation where you tried to use usage rate as if it were a bad thing for a PG, and also attempted to say PER benefitted inefficient players? I sure hope that's not the direction you are going in.
Jrue Holiday was 11th amongst all PG's in the league in PER this season. He had per 36 numbers of:
21.4 points, 7.7 assists, 3.8 rebounds, and 1.7 steals
He's a stout defender(unlike everyone else on this team) at 6'4 and 25 years old.
He was better than Mike Conley. And I know you can't possibly be blaming Jrue Holiday for the record in the same thread where you prop up Eric Bledsoe.
At the end of the day, I made my case on the other board why trading Jrue Holiday still probably makes the most sense for the team. But to insinuate he isn't a good player is just foolish.
Jrue Holiday was 11th amongst all PG's in the league in PER this season. He had per 36 numbers of:
21.4 points, 7.7 assists, 3.8 rebounds, and 1.7 steals
He's a stout defender(unlike everyone else on this team) at 6'4 and 25 years old.
He was better than Mike Conley. And I know you can't possibly be blaming Jrue Holiday for the record in the same thread where you prop up Eric Bledsoe.
At the end of the day, I made my case on the other board why trading Jrue Holiday still probably makes the most sense for the team. But to insinuate he isn't a good player is just foolish.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:25 pm to Jon1798
quote:
At the end of the day, I made my case on the other board why trading Jrue Holiday still probably makes the most sense for the team. But to insinuate he isn't a good player is just foolish.
I agree he should be traded this off season to the Jazz or Bucks if he doesn't sign an extension. Unless the FO is cool with paying Jrue near max or letting him walk its best to move him. He's a hood play but not a max player also what incentive does he have to stay here?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:28 pm to 504ByrdGang
Its crazy how much jrue and buddy rustle your jimmies
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:30 pm to LosLobos111
I like Jrue and Buddy I think its more due to you guys who overrate them. Buddy being compared to Harden and Steph and When people were screaming Jrue was better than Millard. Jrue is a super solid player but isn't a huge impact game changer.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:36 pm to 504ByrdGang
No one has overrated either
You on the other hand have gone on multi thread crusades against the latter
You on the other hand have gone on multi thread crusades against the latter
Posted on 4/18/16 at 6:41 pm to LosLobos111
I'm worried about Jrue's next contract how far can we got with Asik at 11 mil and Jrue at 18-20 mil?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 7:50 pm to 504ByrdGang
We won't win shite unless we get Luwawu baw
Posted on 4/18/16 at 8:55 pm to 504ByrdGang
When did you become such a troll? I thought you used to be a decent poster.
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