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re: The Crewz Memorial "Insider Info" 2k17 Trade Simulator Thread: Official

Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:49 am to
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:49 am to
quote:

half decent, but majorly flawed guards and go get a transcendent talent and see what a guy like that can do with AD



McCollum is a transcendent talent? really? this is YAYpoints! thinking at its finest

he's a great, great scorer. he is not a Harden level passer. he is not even a Holiday/Evans level passer. not sure how that works w/ Davis.

plus a McCollum/Hield backcourt is as bad defensively as Lillard/McCollum.

this isn't much of a plan other than selling points! points! points!, but it would be fun to watch him on the Pels.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61391 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:56 am to
quote:


McCollum is a transcendent talent? really? this is YAYpoints! thinking at its finest


Yeah, I was just thinking if Lillard/McCollum isn't working why would McCollum/Buddy work? Does AD and the Corner Boys make that work? Holiday and his ability to guard 1-4 has been a very big part of the switch everything defense working so effectively. I feel this would make the Pels just a different flavor of .500 team. Average on offense and defense instead of good at one and horrid at the other.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38579 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:56 am to
no question

my point is if they use jrue (2013/2014 lottery picks) and a 2017 pick (likely lottery) to acquire the player they could have easily drafted with one of those picks and enjoyed both the fruits of that player on a rookie contract AND the use of the other two assets, they ain't "winning" that press conference
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9903 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:00 am to
quote:

McCollum is one of the few players I'd give up our first round pick for. Dude would light the fricking scoreboard on fire for us. If it's remotely possible, go get him.


What happens to the defense with CJ/Buddy playing together? Currently ranked 93rd and 94th in DRPM.

I also still do not believe that Dell would trade Jrue. If he wouldn't get value for Ryno who he got for nothing and was clearly walking without a massive overpay, why would he trade Jrue for which he gave up 2 lotto picks and was the centerpiece of his young vets strategy? Now that I got him to reveal his trolling plans, I am going to get MM banned so we get his "good" alter and actual content without all of this nonsense for a while, will be fun to show him this later after his gotcha moment. I think a trade could be sold to fans and AD along the premise of leaking that Jrue was going to leave especially after last year seeing EJ and Ryno leave for nothing, but I don't think that Dell would admit he failed and trade Jrue.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:04 am to
right.

I know no one wants to hear this, but they should be patient right now.

Since going small with this roster, they have a +4.8 Net Rating (6th in the league) and the best defense in the league (99 DRating..1.4 points better than #2)

obviously a small sample (11 games) but that is promising. if the defense is not a mirage, it becomes much easier to plug in shooting/creating holes.

maybe it implodes over the next few weeks. then i would think about something radical, but let's see how it plays out for a little while longer
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38579 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:08 am to
as a matter of fact, if they were to use jrue and a first to get CJ I think you could present this scenario as a mater class in how NOT to build an NBA team 101

there could and should be a law against what this front office has done in mismanaging assets aver since the second they drafted Davis
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:15 am to
If you saw CJ when Lillard was out, you saw a transcendent talent.

I'm fine bringing Buddy off the bench and starting Moore, or starting all three of them. And I believe Buddy will be an avg defender by year 3. Lillard is bottom of the barrel bad on defense.

I believe that CJ, if he is the dominant guard on his team has 28ppg type potential on fewer shots than IT3 uses to get those points. So yes, transcendent
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61391 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:18 am to
quote:

Since going small with this roster, they have a +4.8 Net Rating (6th in the league) and the best defense in the league (99 DRating..1.4 points better than #2)


Yeah, I'm not saying everything is peachy right now, but you're within spitting distance of a top 5 defense and only need about 4 points per 100 possessions more to become an average offense. Squeezing 2 more FGs a game out of Hill and Cunningham may be impossible, but that's probably why they were interested in a guy like Will Barton. He can add points without hurting the defense too much. The point being you don't need to add a Gordon Hayward to get this team to a top 5 defense and average offense. Then you've become a solid playoff team. To get beyond a solid playoff team you probably do need a Hayward, but a fairly unexciting addition to this mix could push them up a tier and you usually have to crawl before you can walk.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25268 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:21 am to
why should anyone be interested in "winning a press conference"?
Who gives a shite what it looks like you're doing. You're not going to trade Jrue for a pick b/c you're afraid of what people are going to say? Man up and do what you think is right for the team.
You think the Knicks gave a shite about their idiot fans booeing them when they drafted Porzingis. Fans get over it real quick if it's the right move and see the progress from it down the line.

If you let EG, Ryno, Jrue, and Reke all walk and get absolutely nothing in return for them, that's the worst press conference you can have. Thanks for the 4 injury plagued seasons guys. you teased us with a nice playoff appearance once. Good luck with your new team where i'm sure you'll excel at, like EG and Ryno are.
Outside of trading for Ryno, trading for QPon and Cole, drafting AD, drafting Buddy, every move this team has made has not only been not good, but it seems to have lasting effects that keep trickling down into more bad moves.

Quit worrying about what fans think, and quit worrying about having a good team this year. Find a way to be at least a 5 seed or better in 3 years, and sustain that going forward. The current team isnt' getting us there, so do something for the future, not for right now.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61391 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:28 am to
quote:

why should anyone be interested in "winning a press conference"?


This does seem like odd terminology considering the general disdain for the media they have on the Saints side of things. But they do care enough about PR on the Pelicans side to hijack fake twitter accounts for team mascots.

Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38579 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:33 am to
McNamaras comment, not mine
I was responding to his post saying they'd trade holiday if they could win the press conference

all I'm saying is that if they burn 3 lottery picks for McCollum they aren't going to do that
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61391 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:37 am to
quote:

if he is the dominant guard on his team has 28ppg type potential on fewer shots than IT3 uses to get those points.


Let's assume this is correct for the moment. Did we just rebuild ourselves in Boston's image? They're #8 in NetRtg so I don't think that's a bad thing.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25268 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:39 am to
You can't let your mistakes from the past affect how you do business in the future, simply b/c you don't like how the way it will look.

Yeah it would be like saying you gave up 3 first round picks for McCollum. So what. two of those picks are history and can do nothing to change this team right now.
This is no different than resigning Asik to his stupid contract b/c you didnt' want to make it seem like you gave up a pick for nothing. You made a gamble, you lost, move on. Don't double down on the stupid move with another one out of some stupid spite or image or whatever.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:39 am to
Think of it this way(because they do) --- a f a trade of CJ for Jrue goes down, does the national headline read: "Pelicans acquire McCollum in four player deal." Or "Blazers acquire Holiday in four player deal"?

It is likely the former. But if they ship Holiday to the Knicks for a pick, it is 100% "Knicks acquire Holiday"

I know you guys don't think about this stuff, and my argument is that they shouldn't either, but believe me they do. And they also do with AD. Tell him you got a pick, who might be able to really help him in 3 years and watch his face vs tell him that you got him an elite scorer to take the pressure off him
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25268 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:46 am to
quote:

"Pelicans acquire McCollum in four player deal." Or "Blazers acquire Holiday in four player deal"?


McCollum is a bigger player than Jrue. it would read "Pelicans acquire McCollum, the 25 year old who will be with the Pelicans for the next 5 years with AD". not "Blazers acquire Holiday, hope he resigns or they are idiots for letting McCollum go for that"



quote:

Tell him you got a pick, who might be able to really help him in 3 years and watch his face vs tell him that you got him an elite scorer to take the pressure off him

AD isnt' an idiot. He said recently he understands it's a business. Of course he'd be happy to get McCollum. You think he'd be happy to see Jrue and Reke sign elsewhere and we get nothing at all, b/c that's what's going to end up happening.

Sometimes when your the boss, you make decisions that dont' make everyone happy, but you know that it's in the best interest of your team that you make this unpopular decision, and they will see to understand it down the line when it pays off.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38579 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:50 am to
quote:

Tell him you got a pick, who might be able to really help him in 3 years and watch his face vs tell him that you got him an elite scorer to take the pressure off him


no doubt...davis would likely be on board

i believe you when you say the FO thinks about things like this. all i'm saying is that i also believe they would get spit roasted by any writer/analyst who does 5 minutes of research

this trade:

2013 #6 pick
2014 #10 pick
2017 #TBD pick

for

2013 #10 pick (now maxed)

OR

draft CJM at 2013 #6, or trade down 7 to 10 and get an asset, draft CJM at #10 THEN use 2014 #10 and 2017 #TBD for whatever AND get 4 yrs of CJM at rookie scale

it is straight up incompetance

Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:51 am to
quote:

you saw CJ when Lillard was out, you saw a transcendent talent. 


right. I keep forgetting you are the only guy who watches NBA games....silly me

a 5 game sample size of him as a lead guard is enough to label a guy "transcendent" but 11 games as the best defense in the league and a top 6 Net Rating is a waste of time...In Demps We Trust, right?

it's rich that you bitch about this board being full of "dumb" commentary,but you publish your own fantasies and it's "serious discussion" time
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:52 am to
Who are you arguing against? That is exactly my point, or better yet, the franchises point. They like those splashy national headlines and CJ would matter so much more to AD than a draft pick.

Blazers still aren't fully in on trading CJ, but if they get all the way there, it makes a ton of sense for the Pels -- at least, when you consider their priorities and their perceived timeline, etc.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:56 am to
It is my opinion that CJ will be a transcendent talent when he becomes THE guard on his team. I do not know the future, never claimed to.

The reason fans are dumb, IMO, is they let passion guide them too frequently. Also, most are not trained in the art of debate/argument building. There is no "right" or "wrong" when predicting the future. But there are sound arguments and arguments that are not sound -- and that is based purely on structure, not content. I know this is too deep for you and too deep for a message board, because apparently we are just all supposed to be emotional cavemen on here, but I figured I'd try to explain in case somebody with half a brain accidentally stopped by.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:00 am to
That is actually how Demps thinks - and is his greatest fault. So next time you call Demps an idiot, know that you think just like him.

Would it be stupid to trade Austin Rivers, Terrance Jones, and a future 1st for Draymond Green? Well according to your logic, it would be because you would be trading the 10th pick in 2012, the 18th pick in 2012, and another 1st for the 35th pick in the 2012 draft, who is now on a much bigger contract.

Who cares where a guy was drafted or what you paid for a guy you have now? That is the same faulty logic that Dell used to re-sign Gordon (Well, he was the centerpiece of the CP3 deal, so we MUST re-sign him!)

People say I am in Dell's pocket, but I have written more 2500 word hit pieces on him that anyone else has. And it always starts with his inability to accept sunk cost (and optimism bias)

Now, YOU just did the exact same thing. So, before you bash Dell, know that you think JUST like him.
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