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re: Stephen A talking about Cp3 and the Pelicans
Posted on 5/12/17 at 3:04 pm to Solo
Posted on 5/12/17 at 3:04 pm to Solo
quote:
WTF, do you ever watch Pels games? When they win its usually BECAUSE Mr. Davis drags them to a W. Someone should link the OKC 3 over KD and shut this crap down with the quickness.
so you watched sportscenter 3 years ago and you know all there is to know about the Pelicans?
I watched Peja hit a turnaround 3 at the buzzer against Phoenix on a crappy feed on my work laptop b/c i needed a VPN to see the game. Don't ask me if i watch Pels games moron.
All i was saying is AD has yet to learn how to win games down the stretch CONSISTENTLY. He's young and still learning. He doesn't demand the ball enough if you ask me, and we don't give it to him in positions that are ideal.
and just to let you know, we were 9-12 this year when AD scored over 35. And only 1 person in the top 15 in scoring in the clutch this year had a worse +/- than AD in the clutch, and that was Cousins, who had a -1.1, with AD at -0.7. PG and Harden were the only other ones in the negative this year in the top 15.
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 3:07 pm
3
Posted on 5/12/17 at 3:18 pm to TeddyPadillac
Get outta here with that shite.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 3:30 pm to STEVED00
quote:lets not say that. Because thats not true.
Let's say Griffin and AD are a wash in terms of talent (
Posted on 5/12/17 at 3:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:must not have actually watched it. It was a 2pt buzzer beater.
I watched Peja hit a turnaround 3 at the buzzer against Phoenix on a crappy feed
Posted on 5/12/17 at 5:47 pm to LSUperior
quote:
Name 2 other players (besides LeGOAT) that are better than him when taking into consideration playing both defense AND offense
just going to toss Giannis out there since no one else did.
more to the point, that 2 way criteria is very different than
quote:
a top 3 player
James Harden is a top 3 player in the NBA. yet no one will say he is a better 2 way player than Davis.
Davis is phenomenal. he is a superior talent. he is an all-NBA performer. he's still at a disadvantage in these discussions b/c of position/skill set.
it's funny that so many people in this thread are trashing Griffin; if Davis had peak Griffin's passing skills and floor game...
quote:
I wouldn't trade Davis for any of those players
fun parlor game- who would you trade Davis for?
obviously LeBron- don't care how old he is. that dude is an instant title shot. what about the other 3 MVP contenders this year?
real tough one for me- Giannis. i think i would move Davis for Giannis
Posted on 5/12/17 at 6:58 pm to corndeaux
I think Giannis is the only player I'd trade Davis for straight up and I can't believe I forgot him.
so that's six players better than Davis at creating on his own which is as you rightly point out the only way a superstar can carry a flawed team past .500
Davis is so unique but he must have a facilitator which is why I can't get behind going all in on holiday. yes he improves the defense but what we need is an aggressive pass first penetrator and that is definitely not holidays forte'. Holiday is a 2, not a 1
so that's six players better than Davis at creating on his own which is as you rightly point out the only way a superstar can carry a flawed team past .500
Davis is so unique but he must have a facilitator which is why I can't get behind going all in on holiday. yes he improves the defense but what we need is an aggressive pass first penetrator and that is definitely not holidays forte'. Holiday is a 2, not a 1
Posted on 5/12/17 at 7:30 pm to cgrand
That trio wins 55+ games
And they have what could attack the Warriors weakness. Do they instantly become a title favorite? Of course not. But they are in the mix.
And they have what could attack the Warriors weakness. Do they instantly become a title favorite? Of course not. But they are in the mix.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 7:36 pm to cgrand
Butler and george should never be mentioned anywhere near Davis
I'd have Davis as the 7th best, behind Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Harden, Westbrook. Throw in CP3 and these are the elite players in the NBA. George and Butler are not elite and couldn't hold ADs jock. They are both in that 10-20 range.
I'd have Davis as the 7th best, behind Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Harden, Westbrook. Throw in CP3 and these are the elite players in the NBA. George and Butler are not elite and couldn't hold ADs jock. They are both in that 10-20 range.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 8:01 pm to CocoLoco
both of them dragged atrocious teams to the playoffs this year
yes in the east blah blah...they still got there and they still had their moments
both have certain skills that are far more developed than Davis
it doesn't matter...this whole thing is dumb
Paul's not coming here and the pels aren't winning 55 games anytime soon
yes in the east blah blah...they still got there and they still had their moments
both have certain skills that are far more developed than Davis
it doesn't matter...this whole thing is dumb
Paul's not coming here and the pels aren't winning 55 games anytime soon
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 5/13/17 at 7:43 am to cgrand
quote:
Paul's not coming here
Paul would have to want to leave first. Let's say Redick gets an offer he can't refuse and Blake leaves and they do it in a way that you can't bring back a CP3 BFF like Melo. I can see that happening.
But then you have to have teams better than you like San Antonio and Cleveland say no, which I could also see happening.
But then as I outlined on the previous page, you have to do a S&T of Holiday. What is the motivation for the Clippers to S&T for Holiday at $28+ million a year and have a team built around Holiday/Jordan? CP3/Jordan plus shooters is probably a better plan.
I can see them wanting Holiday if everyone else is staying and CP3 still wants out, but if everyone else is staying then I don't think CP3 has us on his list of landing spots.
You also can't forget this with all of the CP3 dreams
Cousins just doesn't seem like a let bygones be bygone kind of guy and CP3 has a reputation for rubbing teammates the wrong way. What's the point of bringing Paul back if he turns your Big 3 into a Big 2?
This post was edited on 5/13/17 at 7:54 am
Posted on 5/13/17 at 10:35 am to cgrand
quote:
it doesn't matter...this whole thing is dumb
Paul's not coming here and the pels aren't winning 55 games anytime soon
dreaming for a 3rd star is foolish
much more interested in how the Pels can make Davis/Cousins work effectively on both ends and how they need to fill gaps around whatever they think is the best plan for those two.
here's cleaningtheglass (again) with an interesting piece on the trade offs w/ lineups/styles as played out in Spurs v Rockets
size matters
quote:
You hear it a lot in the media these days: it’s so hard to go big because your spacing isn’t ideal — good defensive teams will clog the paint and force you into low percentage midrange jumpers. But you don’t hear the other side as much, as important as it is: go small and good offensive teams will attack you in the paint and on the glass
here's one for Pels fans screaming for more post ups...
quote:
Of course it’s not only a choice between these two extremes, between being the Spurs and being the Rockets. There is a middle ground, and it’s in the lineup type that has the best point differential of those listed above: trying to take more traditional big men and develop enough of a three point shot that they can become spread bigs. A big man who can also shoot is the best of both worlds.
quote:
The problem is that finding a big man who can both space the floor and defend at a high level is very difficult — most of the best shooting big men also happen to be underwhelming defenders. If you don’t have one of those rare few who can play both ends of the floor, what do you do? The public dialogue has made it seem like going small is the only choice, the inevitable outcome in a league increasingly enthralled with shooting.
But basketball is a complex puzzle, not easily solved with simple prescriptions. The Spurs prove that the answer isn’t always “go small and shoot more threes”. As has been true since the invention of the game, size matters.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 10:56 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
All i was saying is AD has yet to learn how to win games down the stretch CONSISTENTLY. He's young and still learning. He doesn't demand the ball enough if you ask me, and we don't give it to him in positions that are ideal.
first 11 games of the season when it was the dleague+AD, holiday came vs portland. AD missed vs orlando
AD went:
30.5 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 SPG, 2.8 BPG, 2.5 TOV
shooting: 48.5/15.8/81.7 on 21.5/1.7/11.5 attempts
We went: 2-9 that stretch.
He takes 20.3 attempts a game 3rd most, 21.5 would have put him at 2nd.
Issue is its a guard/wing dominant league, you need a competent floor general.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 10:59 am to corndeaux
quote:
dreaming for a 3rd star is foolish
It's highly unlikely but Stephen A giving us the free ad on ESPN is pretty dope. He knows guys in the league too.
CP3 is the quintessential point guard. You not only get his ability to make others around him better, you get his understanding of the game of basketball as well. If there was one guy you'd want as a player to help Gentry figure out the AD/DC puzzle, it's Paul.
Not only that, I just can't see the same officiating bullshite with Cousins if Paul is on the team. He would affect us in so many ways. We instantly become a top 3 marketable team in the league with him behind GSW and CLE. I'm not saying better than the rest. I'm talking about a team that the NBA is INVESTED in succeeding.
I mean just the pure thought of Paul on this team is downright scary. It should be everyone's pipe dream. Consider we're going to have to stagger AD/DC minutes now. What does adding Paul to the mix do for that? Cousins is a guy that can carry a second unit unlike Jordan. These situations are not the same at all. And as much as people want to crow about having deep rosters to compete, who's gonna be in the finals? Cleveland and GSW. Who's the two teams in the league that have a legit big 3? Cleveland and GSW. What's the EC 1 seeds biggest problem? Not having the star power to match up and relying on a 5' 10" superstar or the on/off Horford/Bradley duo.
This is friggin dumb even discussing imo. You get a shot at Chris fricking Paul and actually open the title window in this city, you take it. I don't care if it's room+8 guys option. Paul/Davis/Cousins is not Paul/Griffin/Jordan and it's not close.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 11:16 am to ShamelessPel
Agreed man. If you can find a way to do it you absolutely do. No question.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 11:30 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
You get a shot at Chris fricking Paul and actually open the title window in this city, you take it.
Well duh. I don't think it opens a title window, but they would be very good. if Paul is interested, of course you explore that fully
the point is he likely is not, so arguing about 55+ wins and a 2 seed is a waste of time to me.
quote:
Cleveland and GSW. Who's the two teams in the league that have a legit big 3? Cleveland and GSW.
disagree on Cleveland's roster and on GS, though to a lesser extent than the last 2 years.
what sets them apart from the Clippers (and whatever the Pels have tried to do around Davis) is that they understand what gaps to fill around their premier talent and have done a good job identifying those guys (via draft, scrap heap, ring chasers, et al)
the Pels have two dominant talents. not exactly natural fits, but close enough. they need to worry more about those two meshing, what areas need shoring up, and then how to identify/develop players to fill those gaps more than "MUST HAVE BIG 3"
if Davis/Cousins is as good as we all hope, they shouldn't need to sell out for a 3rd all NBA level player to become a good team. they should be able to use their skills and system to make lesser guys look better.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 2:47 pm to corndeaux
quote:
disagree on Cleveland's roster and on GS, though to a lesser extent than the last 2 years.
What's their to disagree about? Give me a team with better 3rd players than Love or Thompson. Tell you what, you put Paul on this Pels team and you have an argument for one and an easy yep for the other. When push comes to shove, the stars win these titles. Teams like Houston, San Antonio, and Boston do what you describe. Find great role players to make them relevant. They don't have the firepower to beat the juggernauts though.
The Clippers never had a big 3 and they won 50 regularly. A player you can't count on in the clutch and can be intentionally fouled as a weakness is not a 3rd banana. Jordan's full offensive game was built around Paul/Griffin creating lobs/dump offs and putbacks. Give CP3 two true two way players and you or I really don't know if he could contend with them.
quote:
if Davis/Cousins is as good as we all hope, they shouldn't need to sell out for a 3rd all NBA level player to become a good team. they should be able to use their skills and system to make lesser guys look better
You're right in my opinion. Unfortunately for the Pels, these two aren't natural ball handlers and need either a floor general to set them up or a coach cunning enough to deploy them. Right now, we have neither and a GM who's not shown the capability to do what you describe, yet miraculously lucked into Davis and Cousins. The Cousins trade he pulled off, yes. You can't tell me when he drafted Buddy Hield he did it to dangle him in front of an owner and say gimme your superstar. Luck and the cajones to just ask.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 2:54 pm to ShamelessPel
We need a primary ball general that isn't horrid defensively and has an OK shot. that allows jrue to fit better as a combo guard/2 guard as a secondary ball handler. Allows cousins to be a tertiary ball handler which he's very good at.
The thing is, We need better play from the 3 for any situation to work.
The thing is, We need better play from the 3 for any situation to work.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 3:23 pm to htran90
quote:
We need a primary ball general that isn't horrid defensively and has an OK shot. that allows jrue to fit better as a combo guard/2 guard as a secondary ball handler. Allows cousins to be a tertiary ball handler which he's very good at.
The thing is, We need better play from the 3 for any situation to work.
And see that's my biggest gripe with Dell. He can't see two feet in front of his face. I wanted Rubio not as a pipe dream, but because it was rumored that he'd be given away.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 3:51 pm to ShamelessPel
Wasn't there a rumor that said that it was lavine+Rubio for jrue+asik?
We'd be in very good shape right now if that's the case.
We'd be in very good shape right now if that's the case.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 4:16 pm to htran90
The Lavine Holiday rumor was pre-Thibs. That was 2 years ago when according to Lowe the Pels were "valuing Holiday like he was Russel Westbrook" I doubt you'd convince Holiday to do a S&T to Minny. If he's going the young team route just get paid to go to Philly.
This post was edited on 5/13/17 at 4:19 pm
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