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re: Spin off: Should the pels look to trade Jrue?
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:16 pm to 504ByrdGang
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:16 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
Jrue at pg 18-19
Tyreke at pg 27-18
You can keep trying, but almost every statistical measure from last year says Jrue > Tyreke.
Jrue 40 games: 3.4 WS, 0.124 WS/48 minutes, BPM +2.3, VORP 1.4, 109 ORTG, 107 DRTG
Evans 79 games: 4.6 WS, 0.082 WS/48 minutes, BPM +1.9, VORP 2.6, 103 ORTG, 107 DRTG
VORP is value over replacement player.
Jrue->Tyreke wasn't a big gap between Tyreke->Cole
Also WS by itself can be skewed in favor of tyreke due to # of games played, that's why WS/48 is better. Only problem, which everyone here will agree is that Jrue wasn't healthy for quite some time. If he is, this is the kind of player you can expect and get from him and it is better than Tyreke.
ETA:
Jrue: 52.2 TS%, 18.8 PER, 23.1 USG%, 34.9 AST%, 13.8 TOV%
Tyreke: 50.8 TS%, 17.7 PER< 26.1 USG%, 32.7 AST%, 16.0 TOV
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 12:20 pm
1
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:17 pm to 504ByrdGang
And you could also point out the softness of the schedule. There are lots of reasons why the team was better down the stretch, but you weren't watching the games if you don't think upgrading from John Salmons and Pump Fake Babbitt to QPon and from Austin Rivers/Jimmer to a hotter than he's ever been Norris Cole changed things more than just about anything else.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:20 pm to htran90
quote:
VORP is value over replacement player.
Jrue->Tyreke wasn't a big gap between Tyreke->Cole
Tyreke wasn't Jrue's back up last season he started with him. Jimmer and Austin were Jrue's back up so that would explain that as opposed to scorching hot Norris Cole.
quote:
And you could also point out the softness of the schedule. There are lots of reasons why the team was better down the stretch, but you weren't watching the games if you don't think upgrading from John Salmons and Pump Fake Babbitt to QPon and from Austin Rivers/Jimmer to a hotter than he's ever been Norris Cole changed things more than just about anything else.
True, the whole topic is how good of a team could we be with Jrue at 18-20 mil. I don't think he will be a 20ppg scorer if he can than he's worth it.
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:22 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
Tyreke wasn't Jrue's back up last season he started with him. Jimmer and Austin were Jrue's back up so that would explain that as opposed to scorching hot Norris Cole.
My mistake on that one, I kept thinking 2013-2014.
quote:
True, the whole topic is how good of a team could we be with Jrue at 18-20 mil. I don't think he will be a 20ppg scorer if he can than he's worth it.
Doesn't need to be a 20PPG scorer if we get viable assets or threats at SG/SF or even a more offensively capable center. You need someone to run an efficient offense and it starts with him. He goes for 16/4/9 nobody would have an issue honestly I don't think. He's always been relatively careful and efficient with the ball, good AST:TOV ratio for his career so him with a better supporting cast will only help that number.
The issue becomes you spend the 20mil where and who is available. Unfortunately, both Jrue and Tyreke are free agents that year. You probably keep one, but there's money you have to throw somewhere else. It becomes a "he's the best you can get at that position so you gotta pay him" or "nobody else at any position is available so gotta throw it somewhere". Similar to Dallas this past year and Wesley Mathews
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:34 pm to htran90
quote:
The issue becomes you spend the 20mil where and who is available. Unfortunately, both Jrue and Tyreke are free agents that year. You probably keep one, but there's money you have to throw somewhere else. It becomes a "he's the best you can get at that position so you gotta pay him" or "nobody else at any position is available so gotta throw it somewhere". Similar to Dallas this past year and Wesley Mathews
If we're in that position AD is as good as gone.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 12:43 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
True, the whole topic is how good of a team could we be with Jrue at 18-20 mil.
You are thinking in old money terms.
$11 million is 18.9% of a $58 million salary cap
$20 million is 18.5% of a $108 million salary cap.
You also still need to replace him if he leaves. If you can replace him with Ish/Frazier level players great, but if it were that easy everyone would do it. And if you replace Jrue with guys in his same tier like Teague, Lowry, Jennings, etc. you aren't really going to save any money.
And one thing Jrue (and Tyreke if he would fit as Gentry's PG) have that their comparable PGs don't is a $15-$16 million cap hold as opposed to a $20+ million contract signing.
Tyreke/Ajinca/Cunningham should be dumpable now. Asik will be dumpable in 2017. Maybe you have to include some 2nds or maybe a guy like BDJ or Ennis if they look decent to move Asik but if you need his cap space you should be able to get it. The moves are there over the next 2 seasons to sign 2 more $20+ million players in addition to Jrue and AD. Holiday's next contract is not stopping us from adding to the core. The team's attractiveness to FAs is the obstacle. They have to hit on the draft pick and FA pickups and get back to the playoffs.
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:33 pm to TigerinATL
I think most people are concerned about paying Jrue due to injuries, not production. Would I rather pay Lowry 20mm over Jrue? Of course, because I think he'll actually be on the court.
Posted on 4/21/16 at 10:18 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
Health is always a concern with that dude though.
True.
Posted on 4/21/16 at 10:21 am to Solo
I just see this as another Eric Gordon situation without the shitty attitude "You guys call me the cornerstone with AD and untouchable now pay me like that". With the glutten of pg's I can see a good reasoning to pay one with his injury history and one that isn't elite that type of money.
Posted on 4/21/16 at 10:29 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
I just see this as another Eric Gordon situation without the shitty attitude "
Gordon was known fragile before we traded for him. Jrue has had one major injury, it's been serious and it's been mismanaged, but if he plays next year with no problems from his stress fracture and plays 75+ games, I think we can feel pretty confident that it will be nothing like Gordon. If he doesn't we'll have good reason to move on.
quote:
With the glutten of pg's I can see a good reasoning to pay
The reason is you aren't upgrading you'd be making a lateral move at best unless you go after a max guy, and Jrue can save you at least $4-$5 million in offseason cap room with his Bird Rights. Do you want Jrue and Hayward, or Teague and Otto Porter Jr (I'm assuming he won't be a max/near max guy).
This post was edited on 4/21/16 at 10:30 am
Posted on 4/21/16 at 11:00 am to Solo
quote:
I think most people are concerned about paying Jrue due to injuries, not production. Would I rather pay Lowry 20mm over Jrue? Of course, because I think he'll actually be on the court.
You actually need $20MM in space to sign Lowry for $20MM. Jrue will be a $16M cap hit and could be signed over the cap with Bird Rights if we use up the space we have before then.
This post was edited on 4/21/16 at 11:01 am
Posted on 4/21/16 at 11:09 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
With the glutten of pg's I can see a good reasoning to pay one with his injury history and one that isn't elite that type of money.
The word is glut. Glutten is a person who overindulges in the face of Celiac disease.
Posted on 4/23/16 at 6:23 pm to 504ByrdGang
Maybe not look to trade him, but I don't think he's nearly as untouchable as some make him out to be.
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