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Started By
Message
re: Pelicans unhappy....source
Posted on 5/25/17 at 10:58 am to Jon1798
Posted on 5/25/17 at 10:58 am to Jon1798
I did about 2-3 weeks ago. Can again. Off top of head, I bet I can get close to 25
CP3
Bledsoe
Booker (will be better within a year or two)
Lillard
McCollum
Rubio (its debateable, I agree but I prefer elite in some categories to average in all)
Conley
Curry
Steph
Harden
Beverly (same argument as Rubio)
G Hill
Westbrook
Harris and Murray (will be before end of Jrue's next contract)
Kyrie
IT3
Bradley
Lowry
Derozen
Wall
Beal
Middleton
Dragic
Kemba
Blanking on some non playoff teams and I bet I missed one or two other obvious ones. And like I put up there, it's not just about the guys who are clearly better now, but also the ones I expect to be better over the next four years. Example: I expect Booker to pass him soon, Fultz, etc
And there are a lot of guys on the same tier, like a Lin or a Teague. You put either one of them on the team and I don't wins go up or down vs Jrue
So you can argue average or a little above average (22-27 range), but either way, you don't give that kind of player 25 mil IMO. That should be reserved for game changers and needle movers. Have other teams done it? Sure, Memphis did it with Parsons. But that doesn't make it a better argument to do it with Holiday.
It's the same way I felt about the Hill contract last year and the Asik one the summer before. I wasn't saying they were the worst players in the world, but overpaying always gets you somewhere down the line
CP3
Bledsoe
Booker (will be better within a year or two)
Lillard
McCollum
Rubio (its debateable, I agree but I prefer elite in some categories to average in all)
Conley
Curry
Steph
Harden
Beverly (same argument as Rubio)
G Hill
Westbrook
Harris and Murray (will be before end of Jrue's next contract)
Kyrie
IT3
Bradley
Lowry
Derozen
Wall
Beal
Middleton
Dragic
Kemba
Blanking on some non playoff teams and I bet I missed one or two other obvious ones. And like I put up there, it's not just about the guys who are clearly better now, but also the ones I expect to be better over the next four years. Example: I expect Booker to pass him soon, Fultz, etc
And there are a lot of guys on the same tier, like a Lin or a Teague. You put either one of them on the team and I don't wins go up or down vs Jrue
So you can argue average or a little above average (22-27 range), but either way, you don't give that kind of player 25 mil IMO. That should be reserved for game changers and needle movers. Have other teams done it? Sure, Memphis did it with Parsons. But that doesn't make it a better argument to do it with Holiday.
It's the same way I felt about the Hill contract last year and the Asik one the summer before. I wasn't saying they were the worst players in the world, but overpaying always gets you somewhere down the line
1
Posted on 5/25/17 at 1:11 pm to Crewz
quote:
It's the same way I felt about the Hill contract last year and the Asik one the summer before. I wasn't saying they were the worst players in the world, but overpaying always gets you somewhere down the line
I agree, especially with those two, but wouldn't you consider Jrue a different kind of story.
Can we get a George Hill or Jeff Teague for less? If so than yes, I agree we'd be dumb not to. But whats available to us is more of a limiting factor than the money we can spend. The difference between Hill, Asik vs Holiday is that the contracts you give Hill/Asik would never have matched their production while Holiday realistically could. Even worse is that Hill/Asik's contracts were outbidding yourself and untradable at the end of the day. You give Holiday 25mil, continues his current play and you could still move him.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 1:54 pm to htran90
quote:I am not so sure.
You give Holiday 25mil, continues his current play and you could still move him.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:01 pm to NOSHAU
I don't think Holiday it's worth 25 mil. And I don't think any NBA team thinks he is either.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:02 pm to NOSHAU
$25 is getting iffy, but I proposed taking on Bazemore or Crabbe for minimal assets like 2nds and filler. They are both fringe starters making aroudn $18. Holiday is a good starter so I think at $22 you could move him.
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:19 pm to TigerinATL
25 mil to Jrue to me is tough. He just doesn't deserve that percentage of cap, he's really just not good enough.
We are in a tough spot.
We are in a tough spot.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:24 pm to TigerinATL
Imagine Eric Bledsoe was on a 5/120 contract right now. Or 4/100. Now I think he is better than Jrue, but I will be nice
What could Phoenix get for him and from whom? Would a dump be their best case scenario? Or maybe take back one not so great contract? Or do you honk they can get assets for him?
What could Phoenix get for him and from whom? Would a dump be their best case scenario? Or maybe take back one not so great contract? Or do you honk they can get assets for him?
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:25 pm to Fun Bunch
My biggest question is how do the Pels view chemistry between he AD and Boogie on and off the court and is that enough to over pay? Because I hope it isn't of course, but there is something to be said about that aspect and how it's measured.
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:33 pm to Crewz
If you let Holiday walk and trade for Bledsoe you'll be in the exact same position when his deal is up. Even though going the cheap route may be the best move long term, it's just not a viable option unless it's forced on the team by Holiday walking.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:40 pm to TigerinATL
That's not what I was implying. I was trying to gauge how moveable Jrue would be by posing a hypothetical
So, again, if Bledsoe had say 4/100 remaining this summer, who do you think would be bidding for him and what would be the highest bid?
So, again, if Bledsoe had say 4/100 remaining this summer, who do you think would be bidding for him and what would be the highest bid?
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:41 pm to whatiknowsofar
Jrue is their coworker- not their friend
They'd prefer he stay and might be a little frustrated if he walks, but if they make the playoffs next year, they won't be looking back at him leaving with any sort of contempt
They'd prefer he stay and might be a little frustrated if he walks, but if they make the playoffs next year, they won't be looking back at him leaving with any sort of contempt
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:44 pm to Crewz
I just don't think this organization is capable of getting a player of equal or better value if Jrue walks. And that's what we'd need to have success in the playoffs (imo just making it won't be enough next year).
Then again I never thought we could fleece Sacto for Boogie...
Then again I never thought we could fleece Sacto for Boogie...
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:46 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
If you let Holiday walk and trade for Bledsoe you'll be in the exact same position when his deal is up. Even though going the cheap route may be the best move long term, it's just not a viable option unless it's forced on the team by Holiday walking.
In that sense trading for Rubio would be better. Unless he becomes a much better shooter, his value could remain depressed by his poor shooting/low ppg.
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:48 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
My biggest question is how do the Pels view chemistry between he AD and Boogie on and off the court and is that enough to over pay?
If the chemistry is good that's exactly why you wouldn't want to overpay, because those 2 on their own could potentially carry you to the playoffs surrounded by relatively cheap 3 and D players. I don't know who will be available to add in the future, but the good teams stay flexible enough so they can strike when opportunity is there. I've defended Holiday for a long time. Even when it was becoming obvious he'd never be the lead guard the team needed but he could be a nice 3 and D guard. But if that's his role, how much is that worth? Boston may well look to trade Avery Bradley because they are in the same situation, a 3 and D guard about to get over paid.
Posted on 5/25/17 at 2:58 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I just don't think this organization is capable of getting a player of equal or better value if Jrue walks
thats clearly true THIS year...
but overpaying him means that will be true EVERY year
Posted on 5/25/17 at 3:21 pm to Crewz
quote:So do you not think he is critical in convincing Cousins to re-sign next year? Have you heard of any players that AD and/or Cousins may want the Pelicans to pursue?
Jrue is their coworker- not their friend
They'd prefer he stay and might be a little frustrated if he walks, but if they make the playoffs next year, they won't be looking back at him leaving with any sort of contempt
Posted on 5/25/17 at 3:46 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
So do you not think he is critical in convincing Cousins to re-sign next year?
The Pels are bringing in a coach presumably to build the offense around Cousins. I don't think he'll care who he's passing to as long as they score and get him the assist. I also think he really likes the idea of playing with AD and being close to home. We'll see if the low Technical Foul rate carries over to next season, but I think a lot of Cousins' problem in Sac was the pressure of being the only good player on a bad team that kept changing coaches to suit the owners whims and not the roster. It's going to have to go really badly for him to leave IMO.
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 3:55 pm to TigerinATL
I would rather them take jrue's money and extend cousins
then you know what your team is for the next three years
figure out the backcourt as it comes
then you know what your team is for the next three years
figure out the backcourt as it comes
Posted on 5/25/17 at 4:04 pm to cgrand
I'm leaning towards that solution as well. Like I've said, the only goal you MUST accomplish between now and July 1st, 2018 is locking Cousins up. No other realistic roster move matters besides that one.
This post was edited on 5/25/17 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 5/25/17 at 4:06 pm to NOSHAU
They want to win. Do it with this player or that player -- they won't care. That's what they want and that's what the Pels will have to do to keep them
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