re: Offseason Trade Possibility

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I wonder how much having better perimeter defensive play by Cole and QPon helped Asik.

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It's kind of crazy to think that Houston's perimeter defense 2 years ago with Lin and Harden was significantly better than what we had the first half of the year, but that's what the numbers do suggest. I also think he never got over his back injury until the ASB. His effort is also an issue. Sometimes I understand, he realizes he's out of position, the battle is lost and doesn't want to pick up a foul that leads to an And 1, but a lot of times it looked like stamina/effort was an issue for him. I hope he spends time in NOLA this year getting in shape.

I just think that is largely based on what you think AD can do. I think AD can take a big step defensively next year. If that is the case, I send out Asik and pieces to move for Tyson Chandler.

Having Tyson at center probably makes us a worse regular season team, but come playoffs it makes the Pelicans an contender. Playoffs are more about just sheer talent and less about depth.

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That's not a fair comparison.
Schedule was harder in the first half, and the additions of QPon and Cole helped with the defense.

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It does need to be taken with a grain of salt because of the schedule, and I think it's obvious he's a part of a good defensive scheme and not a one man gang like AD can be, but there was enough change that you can't discount it either. His FG% increased 5% Post ASB vs. Pre ASB. If we got Post ASB Asik all year then I don't think people are nearly as down on him. But because he played poorly in the first half it let people magnifiy the mistakes they saw in the 2nd half even though he was playing much more effectively and efficiently.

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I'm not a salary cap expert, and i don't know what we can do if we dont' resign him.

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By itself, nothing. Taking on Cole and QPon destroyed any possibility of letting Asik walk and having $8 or so to go after someone like Koufos.

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What does Asik bring that is so far superior for this team than Aaron Baynes/Kevin Seraphin

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The ability to defend without fouling. I've outlined this before but if you look at the per 36 foul rate of the starting centers in the league, there are only a few that are above 5, and most are at 4 and below. I can't tell you why that number matters so much, obviously being able to defend without fouling is a good thing, but the dividing line between good centers and not good centers was so glaring that it stuck out to me researching centers replacements the past few years and the correlation is pretty overwhelming.

Asik is also a vastly superior rebounder to those 2. Baynes falls in the decent rebounder category at 16% (similar to Greg Monroe) while Seraphin falls into the bad category at 13.1% (similar to RoLo and Jason Smith).

The Asik haters really undervalue rebounds for some reason. If everything else is equal, offense, defense, etc, and the only thing we change is rebounding, say Asik vs. Stiemsma, if we give each 25 minutes, Stiemsma will get 5.7 rebounds, Asik will get 9.4 rebounds in that same 25 minutes. The Pelicans shoot an eFG% of 50.1% meaning that with the 3.7 more possessions that Asik provides the team scores 1.85 more points per game.

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when you can find 2 backup guys to fill in and do close to the same.

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The problem is there aren't many cheaper utility bigs available this year.

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pay 2 guys $6 million

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I agree with this for the BACKUP center position. When we had RoLo I thought 2 situational bigs in Smith + Gray was superior to what a $5 million big got you. But you are basically advocating to have those guys fill our STARTING center spot. We saw what that looked like last year and it is not a better solution or even a viable solution IMO.

We don't have the cap to use on anything but vet min. Centers. The fact of the matter is Asik is a starting caliber 5, and post ASB Asik is even better. I think there is a better chance of us seeing post-ASB Asik than pre-ASB Asik next year with better health and continuity. I assume we are saving the MLE for wing help which is prioritized before a replacement center.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you that if Asik wants 4/56, we have to just let him walk. But you seem to value uncertainty more than certainty. Not only is it hard to find effective 5's for the minimum (we've proven this with our last few offseasons), but it is also hard to take those guys and be successful. I think those heat teams and the Spurs (though I think Splitter is underrated) convinced people that you don't need a great 5 to win anymore. Look at the teams left in the playoffs still. That Heat team was the exception, not the rule.

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he's the worst offensive center in the league

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I'm not trying to insult you, but it's hard to take you seriously when you hyperbolize like this. You are just inviting disagreement

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We don't need a 5 playing 26 minutes, when Ryno is healthy. We just need 16-18 minutes from a 5, when this team is healthy.

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I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. The front office doesn't want AD to play that many minutes at the 5. Not just for wear and tear reasons (which is very important), but also because he is not a good enough rim protector yet and probably won't be for a few more years. He is a much better weak side shot blocker. Last five minutes of the game? Sure, Ad is a great option for a small ball 5. But with the centers in our our conference, specifically our division, we need another big body to take that punishment and rebound against those bigs for extended minutes.

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My other secret dark plan for this team.

Step 1:

Let Asik go.

Step 2:

Sign Bargnani

Step 3:

Trade Jrue or Tyreke for Ty Lawson

Step 4:

Sign Dantoni

Step 5:

Commence being the late 2000's Suns.

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dafuq

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Look at the teams left in the playoffs still. That Heat team was the exception, not the rule.

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Lets do that
Clippers - Jordan, a lot better than Asik, well worth $12 million
Memphis - Gasol, a lot better than Asik. well worth $15 million.
Houston - Howard, aging, but still a lot better than Asik. Not worth $20 million anymore.
Golden State - Bogut, better, not by much, and everyone agrees is vastly overpaid. $12 million works on this team with 3 starters on rookie deals still.

Chicago - Noah, a lot better than Asik, worth the $13 million.
Wizards - Gortat, not as good as Asik on defense, but better on offense obviously, worth the $11million
Atlanta - Horford, a lot better than Asik, well worth the $12 million he makes
Cleveland - Varejo, at least as good as Asik, worth the $9 million, Mozgov just as good


These guys were making in the $12-15 million range, and most are vastly superior to Asik. All have an offensive threat, and all can play defense as good as him, some of them are better on defense.
The only guys that don't have offensive threats are Varejo/Mozgov, and they make under $10 million, which is what Asik should make.

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I'm not trying to insult you, but it's hard to take you seriously when you hyperbolize like this. You are just inviting disagreement

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Name a starting center who's worst?
He is no threat to shoot at any point he has the ball, unless he can dunk it, so his defender sits in the lane.
he can't dribble, so his defender sits in the lane.
he isnt' a threat to roll off a pick and catch an alley oop, or even catch a bounce pass for that matter.
he can't make a free throw.
when he sets a pick, his guys sits in the lane. We get open jump shots, but the lane is clogged.
he gets blocked on a dunk attempt at least once a game.
He literally brings nothing to the offensive side of the ball outside of if he sets a good pick, we can get an open jump shot.

The only reason he doesn't look worst is b/c EG started shooting out of his mind this year, and AD is that good. We literally play 4 on 5 on offense and you could see how GSW did this. Every national guy that announced our games continued to harp on how terrible he was in the series, and how we were better without him.

We need to quit thinking about how to play the first 82 games. We are going to make the playoffs if healthy, regardless of who our center is.

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He literally brings nothing to the offensive side of the ball outside of if he sets a good pick, we can get an open jump shot.

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Don't forget the 3.2 ORebs per game. Curiously enough, Tyreke takes 2.7 more FTA, has 1.5 more assists and doesn't see a reduction in FG% when Asik is on the floor. Asik's man leaving him creates an opportunity either for assists or FTs without hurting Tyrekes FG%. No doubt some of that has to do with playing with the starting lineup, but I find it surprising that they don't hurt each other more, Tyreke and Stiemsma were an absolute train wreck when they played together last season.

Asik-Tyreke 2 man unit LINK /
Tyreke-Asik LINK /
Tyreke-Stiemsma LINK /

Do you just enjoy being wrong? Are you a masochist?

Steimsma is terrible and I have no idea how he's in the NBA.
No comparisons to him should be made.

Asik is terrible on offense, but we have found ways to exploit the lackadaisical defense his opponents play on him to our advantage. That doesn't work in the playoffs though.

I know he gets oreb, when he hustles. THat's what's left the bad taste in my mouth. The lack of effort so many times this year. He is great at positioning himself on both sides of the floor for rebounds. Too often he waits for the ball to get to him instead of attacking the ball off the rim. You can find it in every game where he blocks his guy out and the ball comes his way but he doesn't get the rebound b/c someone else came flying in. Had Asik went after the ball, he would have either got it or got fouled.

When you pay a guy to rebound and play defense, and that's it, then you better be pretty damn awesome at it. Nit picking little things like that is fair game to me b/c if he's going to get big money for the 2 things he does, then he better be close to perfect on them.
Nothing pisses me off more than seeing lack of effort from players that one of their biggest assets is hustle.

I think he was hurt as well. And i'm willing to keep him, just not at anything over $10 million.