re: League and Union already talking CBA, hope to have agreement by end of season

College is flawed, I agree a legit Dleague would be better, but regarding players playing rather than just working out on there own for 2 years has nothing to do with that. SFP thinks everyone would be like Jermaine Oneal and blossom as soon as their body was ready. I'd argue Oneal isn't the average player. Again, all I'm saying is hardly playing for 2-3 years seems like an equally flawed development model.

An improved DLeague should be the goal and the idea proposed here of connecting the age limit and a bigger commitment from the owners to the DLeague makes me think that the Dleague might actually be what 2 and Through is about. If every team has its own farm team and they raise the pay for team draftees that go to the Dleague to say $100k per year, that's a very tempting alternative to 2 years of college. They might even need to add rounds to the draft if you go this direction.

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I'd argue Oneal isn't the average player.

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Agreed, but, to me, that is sort of the point. Obviously not every guy (or team) can redshirt in the NBA for years like O'Neal, but most of the teenagers that come into the league aren't average players. They don't need an extra year or two in college or the D League, even if you are getting $100K. That's small potatoes compared to the guaranteed millions as a first round pick.

I guess my hang up is this: What is the reason the NBA needs to go 2 and through?

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Why pay Oneal millions to play as much as Jeff Withey has? That's just poor cap management.

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You're better than this.

No one forced Portland to draft O'Neal, sign vets to play over him, give him an extension, or trade him for 31 year old Dale Davis after spending years developing him into a good player. But I guess they should have drafted senior John Wallace or juniors Walter McCarty or Dontae Jones. Fortunately, the Knicks got all 3 that year and rode off to a land of milk and honey and good cap management.

As soon as anyone shows any evidence that staying in school longer helps reduce draft busts, I'm willing to change my mind. As it is, you're using Jermaine O'Neal (a very good player and prep to pro who worked out) as a reason to keep the LeBrons, Durants, and ADs out of the NBA for an extra year or 2. Why do you want that? Any of those guys or the multitude of successful NBA teens on rookie deals is the Holy Grail of cap management.

I can at least understand the desire to prop up CBB with the best players. But arguing for those changes so that NBA teams can be protected from bad decisions that they will make just as often regardless of draft rules makes very little sense to me.

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You're better than this.

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I am, because I've never said anything close to

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As it is, you're using Jermaine O'Neal (a very good player and prep to pro who worked out) as a reason to keep the LeBrons, Durants, and ADs out of the NBA for an extra year or 2.

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Baseball eligibility rules would let the superstars through. If they do 2 and Through without that loophole then that's just stupid. The league would be denying themselves 2 years of the next Kobe/LeBron/AD etc.

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I can at least understand the desire to prop up CBB with the best players

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I don't think CBB needs the best players, just having continuity will help them. Sure the LSU teams with Shaq and Pistol Pete probably live higher in everyone's memories than the 1986 Final Four team, but people still got excited about a team full of guys that never did anything at the next level. The Tournament is what makes CBB exciting and a lack of continuity is a part of what's keeping fans away. An entirely new team every year is just too much to keep up with unless you're a diehard.

Shift the One and Dones to the NBA, if they get drafted in the 1st they get a traditional rookie scale deal. If they get drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, a team can put them on the 2 and Through DLeague track, which after they finish they can get a long term deal that's better than current 2nd round contracts. Maybe you make them like RFAs to give them the chance to have their salary increased (but you'd still keep RFA rights at the end of this 2nd "rookie" contract).

I just looked at that Jermaine Oneal draft and it was pretty bad, so maybe he still goes in the 1st anyway, but with a mechanism in place giving teams much more control and lower initial cost over project players, you have to wonder if he doesn't slip to the 2nd in that set up. Although what would probably happen is he'd get drafted by the Spurs and the rich get richer ruining the whole system

Regardless, if a team drafts a kid out of high school they need more tools at their disposal for dealing with him than sticking him at the end of the bench.

Adam Silver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Goodell

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Maybe it should be that, once a kid chooses college, an equivalent of NFL or MLB rules apply. But if teams want to sign an 18 year old, I suppose that's on them.

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I'm not opposed to MLB type draft rules at all. But I haven't seen anyone who is actually involved in the negotiations propose this. Silver has only talked about raising the age limit to 20. Not allowing 18 year olds into the NBA- that is from writers and fans.

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If he could unilaterally change one aspect of the NBA, Silver said he'd raise the entry age limit to 20.

"Maybe the 20-year-old is a shorthand," Silver said. "I would just say a better integration of AAU, youth, high school, college basketball and NBA basketball. This is the sport of the 21st century. We have enormous opportunity."

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That's the closest I've seen him on MLB style rules. I could have missed something else though. Happy to be wrong.

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'm not sure how someone can argue that there seems to be less emphasis on (or even giving a shite about) fundamentals . . . the mid-range jumper, good passing, ball handling, generally, even using the left hand for layups, etc, etc., among too many of our young players. I'm curious how you think this is related to the issue, if at all.

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I think the idea that players aren't learning the "fundamentals" is overblown. We won the World Cup with a B Team of young guys. There are about 40-50 players in the USAB pool. Any group of them would be a favorite at the Olympics/World Cup.

As you point out, the game is moving towards more passing, more ball handling, better shooting, more complicated defenses. The NBA game has never been better IMO. I think it's changed from what it was 20 years ago; whether that's bad or good is in the eye of the beholder. But it's just evolution. Clearly there are enough players to produce what we've seen the past few years. Very good to have these conversations and I think the Silver quote about better integration is spot on. But I don't see much of a talent drain.

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As noted above, I haven't seen the league mention MLB style rules;

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Which makes me wonder if 2 and Through isn't actually a backdoor way to shift college talent to the DLeague. Could the DLeague steal some of CBB's thunder if it siphons off the top talent? With no MLB loophole, a decent paying DLeague would seem like a good alternative to 2 years of college for kids that have spent their whole life training for the pros, not academics.

The NBA could end up creating a product built on the top players between 18-20. Even if every player made $100k, that's $45 million in expenses. NCAA Basketball generated $1.4 Billion in revenue in 2012-13 LINK Obviously you couldn't expect the DLeague to be the same draw, but even if it became 20% of what the NCAA is, that's $280 million per year with your player salaries costing you $45 million. And that's on top of developing and marketing new talent for the NBA. Seems like a pretty good business model to me.

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but playing time is always better than sitting on the bench even if the schemes or not the same.

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this is simply not true and has literally derailed many potential NBA players via selfish college coaches (not that i blame them)

it's not just scheme (which makes a huge difference and is a big waste). college coaches play guys in positions they won't play in the NBA early and often. if a coach picks the wrong position, you're basically wasting your time and losing time developing your "NBA skills"

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exposure. the NBA was tired of trying to sell kids that the public had never heard of until draft day. college allowed free hype

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Eh. Maybe 10-15 years ago, but I don't think this has much to do with it now. The NBA is at the forefront of social media; their audience is young, urban, and online. They will see the Vine or highlight package or trending topic. Consider that LeBron and Kobe have been the face of the league for a decade and neither went to college. Or guys like Westbrook and Harden; not well known in college but now are household names. Add that to the dwindling pre tournament tv audience for CBB and the marketing aspect seems like a negligible factor to me.

What I think is going on is the owners don't like being held hostage by superstars during FA. LeBron holding his FA over them isn't a comfortable or usual position for these men. If you can push LeBron back 2 years and hit UFA as a 29 year old, you can limit the amount of power/influence he can hold. You can limit the amount of money he can make over his career from playing.

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With no MLB loophole, a decent paying DLeague would seem like a good alternative to 2 years of college for kids that have spent their whole life training for the pros, not academics.

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The NBA could end up creating a product built on the top players between 18-20. Even if every player made $100k, that's $45 million in expenses. NCAA Basketball generated $1.4 Billion in revenue in 2012-13 LINK Obviously you couldn't expect the DLeague to be the same draw, but even if it became 20% of what the NCAA is, that's $280 million per year with your player salaries costing you $45 million. And that's on top of developing and marketing new talent for the NBA. Seems like a pretty good business model to me.

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While all of the above is true, why would the players sign off on 2 years out of HS? Just because of less competition for roster spots? These guys would likely be future members of the NBPA, so screwing them over would be odd and contrary to the rhetoric of Roberts.