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re: Dell "I suck at being a GM" Demps
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:36 pm to Wizkid124212
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:36 pm to Wizkid124212
quote:
He ran Monty Williams out
No, the fans ran him out
0
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:41 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Given the info available at the time, what would you have done?
The problem is there is A LOT I wouldn't have done leading up to that moment. Including drafting Rivers.
Like i said, with hindsight I can live with the Jrue trade and it has the potential to be great, but that alone doesn't salvage a persons reputation. Dumars had several good moves amidst his awful ones after his championship run, the good ones don't override the awful ones though.
Jrue, even if I am challenging the notion that it may not have been the optimal road to take, is still on the win side of the column for Demps. How much is the contention.
Functionally getting a duo like Payton/Saric, Noel and additional cap space saved by not going all in with Jrue, Gordon and Evans very likely could of produced a more balanced, well fitting roster over the long run. If for no other reason then it would of given the organization more time to get a beat on where Davis would be as a player. Which was still unclear at that point.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:41 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I'm waiting for someone to explain how that trade has actually made much of an impact on the product, so far.
Had they actually put Jrue on his minutes restriction last year, who knows what would have happened. Maybe they're good enough to steal the 7 seed and get a favorable matchup and get past the 1st round. Maybe we see Tyreke accepting and excelling in his super sub role, which was an experiment they were just beginning when Jrue went down. At the very least I think the team is good enough to not blow game 3 vs. the Warriors, Monty still has a job, and they'd be in a better position to go in a completely different direction if we were still a 6-8 seed instead of taking a leap. Instead Monty got fired and we're committed to a coach that doesn't fit the roster that we doubled down on because we thought he was the right coach for the job. Mismanaging Jrue's injury has had as much collateral damage as trading for Tyreke.
Regarding Jrue vs. Noel, this is an agree to disagree argument for us. I don't think Noel would be terrible, but it's not the direction I would choose. I'd take a 2 way wing over Jrue, but not a big unless we're talking someone worthy of the max salary like a young Gasol. They're talking about Whiteside getting max. Jordan is a max player. That's fine and dandy if your PF isn't also a max player that can and probably should play at least 15 MPG at center.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:47 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
So if you had a choice between player A, a guy on a fair contract who has yet to have any serious injury issues coming off an all star appearance, or player B, a center who won't play for at least a year because he suffered a catastrophic knee injury midway through the last season, you would take player B?
A torn ACL is not a catastrophic knee injury in 2013.
And I would propose that, for the 2013 Hornets, coming off a 26 win season or whatever, they had the time to be patient and take a bit of a chance on the guy who was the consensus #1 pick and potential long term partner for your cornerstone until he blew out his knee.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:48 pm to corndeaux
quote:
A torn ACL is not a catastrophic knee injury in 2013.
And I would propose that, for the 2013 Hornets, coming off a 26 win season or whatever, they had the time to be patient and take a bit of a chance on the guy who was the consensus #1 pick and potential long term partner
Furthermore i am not sure I get the angle here when the guy we traded him for ultimately had a longer term injury then Noel has had. And Noel was not the only piece in that puzzle.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:48 pm to MrPel
quote:
When recognizing sarcasm fails..
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:52 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Had they actually put Jrue on his minutes restriction last year, who knows what would have happened
And that's fair. Holiday is a good player and there is still hope he can stay healthy and dominate. But, given what has actually happened, the Jrue trade has been a bust. They are going to win 30 games in year 4 of Anthony Davis. This is a team building disaster
To be perfectly honest, the Holiday trade wouldn't bug me as much if they didn't move for Evans or had been able to unload Gordon. That was a bugaboo for me at the time.
quote:
this is an agree to disagree argument for us. I don't think Noel would be terrible, but it's not the direction I would choose
That's fair. I just don't think Noel is as bad as some Pels fans want to claim. Holiday is a better player, but Noel would be helpful too. Especially if you still have Anderson
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 4:54 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
And Noel was not the only piece in that puzzle.
Yeah. That's the key piece to all of the moves Demps has made. He cashed out everything to go in for a 6 man team. When injuries (via bad luck or management) struck, there was nothing to fall back on but minimum contract wash outs.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 5:01 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I just don't think Noel is as bad as some Pels fans want to claim
That is true, they're overly defensive of the Jrue trade so focus on Noel's negatives. I'm not even sure drafting Drummond would have worked out long term because of where the money would be concentrated in a league shifting to the perimeter. Having him as a trade chip instead of Austin Rivers would have been great though
Posted on 3/11/16 at 5:02 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Yeah. That's the key piece to all of the moves Demps has made. He cashed out everything to go in for a 6 man team. When injuries (via bad luck or management) struck, there was nothing to fall back on but minimum contract wash outs.
And the major risk of such a strategy is you need to be absolutely certain you have the right pieces to go after in that situation. Or players that have enough lingering value to other teams that they can be cashed back out for only a small loss on investment.
Players like Asik, Evans and Gordon dont really fit that mold. All three were injury prone. Two were questionable fits for most rosters. Jrue has oppurtunity costs that are hard to ignore and Anderson is a back up to your strongest position and is not a consistent enough player to offset his negatives over an 82 game season as a core for this group.
Plus to me the whole "young veteran" model is much harder to win with then many seem to grasp.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 5:16 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
Furthermore i am not sure I get the angle here when the guy we traded him for ultimately had a longer term injury then Noel has had
Because I'm looking at it from the perspective of information that was available at the time.
Sure, it's easy to say KD >>>>>>>>>> Greg Oden. But Oden was pretty much the consensus number 1 pick that year and he was for a reason.
Jrue being injured these past few years doesn't mean that the move was wrong at the time based on the information available. That's like saying the guy who dumped a lot of money into the stock market on 9/10/01 was a dumb investor.
BTW, with our doctors and staff, Noel probably still hasn't seen the court at the NBA level.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 5:48 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Because I'm looking at it from the perspective of information that was available at the time.
Sure, it's easy to say KD >>>>>>>>>> Greg Oden. But Oden was pretty much the consensus number 1 pick that year and he was for a reason.
Jrue being injured these past few years doesn't mean that the move was wrong at the time based on the information available. That's like saying the guy who dumped a lot of money into the stock market on 9/10/11 was a dumb investor.
BTW, with our doctors and staff, Noel probably still hasn't seen the court at the NBA level.
The assumption being held here is that if Jrue were healthier it was an obviously better strategy then any other realistic alternative. Not sure that is the case.
I say that as someone that is more and more ok with the trade and if he can stay healthy would be glad it happened.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 10:49 pm to NOLA Bronco
Dell's ineptitude may hield (it's bad I know) us the most NBA ready player in the draft at least. Who would have thought we'd have a shot at drafting a legit running mate for Jrue in Hield or Murray. The more I read on Hield the more I want him to be the pick. He's polished with an incredible work ethic and probably provides us the quickest shot at showing AD we can be competitive sooner rather than later.
Posted on 3/12/16 at 4:39 am to Wizkid124212
quote:
Monty wanted defensive players, Demps got him offensive.
Asik/Q-Pon/Jrue
Posted on 3/12/16 at 7:20 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:
the whole "young veteran" model is much harder to win with then many seem to grasp.
Yes. Finding a guy or two to supplement your core that way makes sense. Basically building your entire core around it is problematic in many different ways. Add to it that it appears Demps and Monty didn't see eye to eye with the roster and how it should play....
quote:
The assumption being held here is that if Jrue were healthier it was an obviously better strategy then any other realistic alternative. Not sure that is the case.
Agreed. Doesn't mean the move was "bad" at the time. Although, no one ever talks about how dumb the 2014 lottery protection was.
It's hard to talk about the alternatives because there are so many ways they could have gone. The biggest thing is the flexibility they would have to operate. It's fair to say injuries derailed whatever Demps thought would happen. It's also fair to say there were other ways to build this team competently.
Posted on 3/12/16 at 9:54 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm not even sure drafting Drummond would have worked out long term because of where the money would be concentrated in a league shifting to the perimeter
I'm less worried about the money than the fit next to Davis. For the longest time, I believed Davis could work next to anyone. Not so sure that is the case because of the league evolving and his own defensive abilities.
He needs defensive help. Yet, you can't play a slow, offensive 0. A dive/roll man will work, but even then I wonder how much that affects where Davis gets his offense. Need almost a playmaking 5 who can anchor a defense....so easy to find
Posted on 3/12/16 at 10:19 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
The more I read on Hield the more I want him to be the pick. He's polished with an incredible work ethic and probably provides us the quickest shot at showing AD we can be competitive sooner rather than later.
Yes more 1 demitional players that every one loves can't do any thing but score.
Posted on 3/12/16 at 10:29 am to 504ByrdGang
Your vendetta on Hield is hilarious.
Posted on 3/12/16 at 6:20 pm to Wizkid124212
The longer we keep anti-tanking personnel in charge of the direction of the team the longer we will continue to tank our franchise instead of the draft.
Mickey is working NFL FA and the NFL draft and Tom doesn't even know he owns a basketball team.
Pels fricked.
Mickey is working NFL FA and the NFL draft and Tom doesn't even know he owns a basketball team.
Pels fricked.
This post was edited on 3/12/16 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 3/12/16 at 9:28 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
Yes more 1 demitional players that every one loves can't do any thing but score.
Like I said, this guy embarrasses retards.
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