re: Jay Z vs Kanye West

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Deflect.

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Believe me, those labia do NOT deflect.

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Jay Z has the same IMO. Jay Z has way more material

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Jay Z is great and overhyped at the same time imo.

Reasonable Doubt, BluePrint and maybe Blueprint 2 are his best albums. Other stuff is just "good"

Put it this way...Pac and Big died 16/17 years ago and they have the same amount of "classic albums" as Jay Z.

People keep saying he's the Jordan of rap. No he's the Rocky Marciano of Rap. He dominated in the weakest years.

He didnt really own rap until other greats were dead and other rapper fells off.

Big/Pac owned it up until the mid 90's. DMX was the best in the late 90s. Eminem/Nas(resurgence) owned the early 2000's. Jay has owned it since...but he hasnt put out any Classic albums since then either.

Best by default.

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Eminem/Nas(resurgence) owned the early 2000's

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nas? in the 2000s? no way. nas made ONE great record, thats it and he made it in 1994. dont get me wrong, i like nas, i think hes a great lyricist, but dude does a horrible job picking beats for the most part imo.

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Jay Z is great and overhyped at the same time imo.

Reasonable Doubt, BluePrint and maybe Blueprint 2 are his best albums. Other stuff is just "good"

Put it this way...Pac and Big died 16/17 years ago and they have the same amount of "classic albums" as Jay Z.

People keep saying he's the Jordan of rap. No he's the Rocky Marciano of Rap. He dominated in the weakest years.

He didnt really own rap until other greats were dead and other rapper fells off.

Big/Pac owned it up until the mid 90's. DMX was the best in the late 90s. Eminem/Nas(resurgence) owned the early 2000's. Jay has owned it since...but he hasnt put out any Classic albums since then either.

Best by default.

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::cough:: Outkast ::cough::

Stillmatic/God Son slightly edged out Blueprint 1 and Blueprint 2.

Jay was 3rd in the early 2000's imo.

Nas breaks down the rise of Jay/Biggie, Puffy, Wu Tang.

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Y'all don't know about my Biggie wars
Who you thought 'Kick In The Door' was for?
But that's my heart, y'all still trippin of this Jigga shite
Real ****s listen up and I'mma tell you how the whole thing start
Off top I brung Queens up from hard times
Rockin at the Fever, streets was all mine
It was my version of the blues, droppin our schools
The crack epidemic had rap representin new rules
So I, got in em shoes, tried em wore them
Wasn't a perfect fit, so I couldn't sport em
Young murderers ride, I knew all them
Jungle got shot, Will died, we was warring
I wrote it in my album
I was 18 when Lake seen the Island
And Lord held me down and
My surroundings started changing
I had a baby, I was making my rounds with AZ
****s started noticing my flow and was open when
The Golden Child closed em in with more style than them older men
Puff tried to start a label, Prince Rakeem had formed Wu-Tang
Snoop and Dre had a new thang
So Puff drove his new Range through Queensbridge Projects
He let me drive it, before Ready to Die hit
BIG and I hit blunts performing at the Arc
Next thing you knew, BIG blew and all the balling starts
He had Kim and his crew, I found Fox, only n*ggas in New York with number
one charts
BIG was ahead of his time, him and Raekwon my ****s
But dig it, they couldn't get along
That's when Ghostface said it on the Purple tape
Bad Boy biting Nas album cover way(?)
BIG told me Rae was stealing my slang
And Rae told me out in Shaolin BIG would do the same thing
But I borrowed from both them ****s
Jigga started to flow like us, but hit with 'Ain't No N*ggas'
Had much Versace swagger
BIG admired the Brooklyn knight and it took him in as Iceberg the rapper
Today don't know nothing, about this bullshite
There's more shite than wanting to be this King of New York shite

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There's some ghetto secrets I can't rhyme in this song
There's some missing pieces I had to leave out
I had lot trust for Steve Stoute
At some point till I got to know him
We old friends, but what's loyal?
Puff soaked Interscope offices
With champagne bottles on Steve, and Steve thought the drama is on me
Cause previously it would have been, against whoever
Friends forever
However, I learn, with some n*ggas it's all business
But I'm a street dude with morals
To diss ****s with Jigga too much, he used to say Jay wanted my spot
I laughed, stayed home, never hung a lot
A quiet man who used to be alone planning
Baby moms thought I was too quiet, couldn't stand it
She hit the streets, later on she hittin the sheets
With a rapper who wanted me on his songs, thinking he strong
I taught her how to watch for cars that might follow
Tauht her street shite that I know
Her weakness was shine yo
But that's her, I ain't mad baby, it made me stronger
Now I get my paper longer
Illmatic I was boss
It Was Written I flossed
One of the most creative LPs ever to hit stores
In the Firm I learned I am Nastradamus
QB's Finest, Oochie Wally, faced more problems
I gave it all up so I can chill at home with mama
She was getting old and sick so I stayed beside her
We had the best times, she asked would I make more songs
I told her not till I see her health get more strong
In the middle of that, Jay tried to sneak attack
Assasinate my character, degrade my hood
Cause in order for him to be the Don, Nas had to go
The Gam-B-I-N-O rules I understood
What you want, see, I already had
The Gift and The Curse? frick that shite, the first shall be last
I'm the man's man, a rapper's rapper
G-O-D S-O-N, they'll be none after
I was Scarface, Jay was Manolo
It hurt me when I had to kill him and his whole squad for dolo

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::cough:: Outkast ::cough::

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I'm only going by solo artist. I would agree Outkast in their prime was top notch.

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Stillmatic/God Son slightly edged out Blueprint 1 and Blueprint 2.

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i dont care for blueprint 2, but the beats on 1 murder stillmatic and/or gods son. like i said, nas has problems picking beats and i think it hurts his output and his ability to put together a classic album. hes a better lyricist than jay, but jays albums are usually better imo because of the beats.

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I'm only going by solo artist. I would agree Outkast in their prime was top notch.

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ill take wu tang over them, but then ive never really been a fan of southern rap, but i do give outkast their due. just not my cup of tea most of the time. their older albums have aged really well though.

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i dont care for blueprint 2, but the beats on 1 murder stillmatic and/or gods son. like i said, nas has problems picking beats and i think it hurts his output and his ability to put together a classic album. hes a better lyricist than jay, but jays albums are usually better imo because of the beats.

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I agree beats wise Nas suffers. But lyrics, flow...Nas was simply better. Thats why I posted the lyrics to "las real n*gga alive"

They are incredible. However, the beat was so so. But his lyrics are so strong that it makes it a great song imo.

Mastermind is an example of his having a great beat and delivering a classic.

I look at early 2000's Jay Z and Nas like this..

Nas was Cam at Auburn.
Jay Z was Tebow at Florida.

Both all time great's at their peak. But Jay Z had more support to make his stuff great. Nas was just carrying it by himself. If Nas had those producers it would be clear whose better.

There is a difference between "Best" and "Most Accomplished"

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Master P was better during that time period than Jay-Z too, along with countless others, he was just another rapper, BUT Jay-z managed to hang around, he's found ways to stay in relevant over the years and so now it seems like he's better than he really is.

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I wouldnt go that far.

P was NEVER better than Jay Z.

However, No Limit was way bigger (at least where I'm from) than Jay Z and Rockafella until about 99/00.

Jay was a much better rapper.

ETA: I do agree that Jay was viewed just as another great rapper. However, as you said...he managed to last. How that equates to him being the GOAT or in the top 3 of all time because of longevity is still confusing to me. When Jay was at his best...he wasnt viewed like he is now.