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Message
Watched Blackhawk Down again the other night
Posted on 2/4/16 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 2/4/16 at 12:54 pm
First off, this movie holds up big time for being 15 years old. The cast is littered with stars.
The question I have is why didn't they scramble an AC-130 after the first chopper went down? I know they set it up that Washington wanted this to be a smash and grab in and out with low visibility, but once things went south really fast, why didn't they get a gunship in there?
The question I have is why didn't they scramble an AC-130 after the first chopper went down? I know they set it up that Washington wanted this to be a smash and grab in and out with low visibility, but once things went south really fast, why didn't they get a gunship in there?
1
Posted on 2/4/16 at 1:03 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
The question I have is why didn't they scramble an AC-130 after the first chopper went down?
Because Billy Boy and Les Aspin (rot in hell) wanted it to be "low profile" - so, no AC-130 and no U.S. armor in the operation.
That's why AMERICAN soldiers had to wait for hours and hours to be relieved by third world military "allies."
Posted on 2/4/16 at 1:09 pm to Ace Midnight
I was just reading some old stuff from a Google search.
Were there no AC 130 even in the area? I seem to recall seeing AC 130 in the staging stadium.
Were there no AC 130 even in the area? I seem to recall seeing AC 130 in the staging stadium.
Posted on 2/4/16 at 1:11 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because Billy Boy and Les Aspin (rot in hell) wanted it to be "low profile" - so, no AC-130 and no U.S. armor in the operation.
That's why AMERICAN soldiers had to wait for hours and hours to be relieved by third world military "allies."
All of this. Also an AC-130 may have been overkill in that environment. CAS isn't all that common in urban environments during low profile missions.
Posted on 2/4/16 at 1:14 pm to 13SaintTiger
Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but when you have US troops forced to spend the night in a hostile hot zone, you would think we would be a little more aggressive.
Posted on 2/4/16 at 1:33 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Also an AC-130 may have been overkill in that environment. CAS isn't all that common in urban environments during low profile missions.
It would have been better suited to facilitate the extraction than the little birds making gun runs all night long and into the next morning. Even though an area weapon, there are precision options on an AC-130 and it can orbit for a long, long time.
Once the sun went down, we could have picked off groups of the skinnies until they left our guys alone.
Posted on 2/4/16 at 2:44 pm to Ace Midnight
Ace:
I'm going from past memory here, and I'm certainly not trying to challenge your bonafides, but were there even any AC-130s in Somalia at the time of the "Blackhawk Down" raid?
It's been a while, but I seem to recall reading that there had been gunships there prior to this particular raid, but they had rotated out some months earlier and not replaced. It might have had something to do with a TOW missile attack on a house that Aidid was supposed to have been in that killed a bunch of civilians. (From helicopter(s), not AC-130s, but politically motivated.)
I'm pretty sure that Garrison had requested armor and add'l air support but was overruled by the Pentagon or White House. IIRC, there was a previous helicopter shootdown that killed 3 or 4 U.S. crew before the two depicted in the movie. I know there was also an earlier incident where a UN ground force was attacked and ~20 Indian (or Pakastani or Bangdelis) troops were killed.
I'm going from past memory here, and I'm certainly not trying to challenge your bonafides, but were there even any AC-130s in Somalia at the time of the "Blackhawk Down" raid?
It's been a while, but I seem to recall reading that there had been gunships there prior to this particular raid, but they had rotated out some months earlier and not replaced. It might have had something to do with a TOW missile attack on a house that Aidid was supposed to have been in that killed a bunch of civilians. (From helicopter(s), not AC-130s, but politically motivated.)
I'm pretty sure that Garrison had requested armor and add'l air support but was overruled by the Pentagon or White House. IIRC, there was a previous helicopter shootdown that killed 3 or 4 U.S. crew before the two depicted in the movie. I know there was also an earlier incident where a UN ground force was attacked and ~20 Indian (or Pakastani or Bangdelis) troops were killed.
Posted on 2/4/16 at 2:51 pm to White Roach
quote:
but were there even any AC-130s in Somalia at the time of the "Blackhawk Down" raid?
I don't believe so.
quote:
Garrison had requested armor and add'l air support but was overruled by the Pentagon or White House.
This is correct.
quote:
there was a previous helicopter shootdown that killed 3 or 4 U.S. crew before the two depicted in the movie.
Yes - Aidid's men shot down a helicopter of the 101st Airborne (Airmobile) on 25 September, resulting in 3 KIA.
quote:
I know there was also an earlier incident where a UN ground force was attacked and ~20 Indian (or Pakastani or Bangdelis) troops were killed.
On 5 June, 24 Pakistani troops (on behalf of the UN mission) were killed by (allegedly) Aidid's men.
This post was edited on 2/4/16 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:05 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Billy Boy
I obviously knew this wasn't the actual name of who you're referring to and I'm not familiar enough with the material to know who you were referring to so I went ahead and Google'd "Billy Boy" for the hell of it. Turns out I've been wasting money all these years on inferior products; I never knew Billy Boy was America's best condom.
On a side note, I actually did attempt to figure out who you were talking about. Were you referring to Garrison, Ace? And just going off of what you said, wouldn't the operation cease being "low profile" once the first chopper goes down? So, if we had an AC-130, or even armor, in the area what was the reason in holding them back?
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:09 pm to Tom288
quote:
Were you referring to Garrison, Ace?
Negative. William Jefferson Clinton.
quote:
And just going off of what you said, wouldn't the operation cease being "low profile" once the first chopper goes down?
It ceased being a low profile (or should have) when we started going into "Indian Country" to grab people.
quote:
So, if we had an AC-130, or even armor, in the area what was the reason in holding them back?
They were requested by the commander on the ground and the civilian leadership failed them - utterly - by denying the request. Therefore, they were not in the area and not available to provide support during the 2 extraction missions. This directly led to 9/11, if one believes Osama Bin Laden.
This post was edited on 2/4/16 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:16 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Negative. William Jefferson Clinton.
Ok, yes. That makes a frick ton more sense & brings up a lot of shite regarding him and the operation, among other things. Clinton lied his arse off regarding knowledge of the operation, if I recall correctly, and used Aspin as a convenient scapegoat (not that he didn't give Clinton the rope to hang him by denying Powell's request).
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