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Message
The Man In The High Castle Crackpot Theory Thread [Spoilers!]
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:11 pm
Just finished watching the first season.
Wow, what a show and story.I know there's a season one thread, but I think having a theories thread might prevent inadvertent spoilers to those that haven't watched yet.
I definitely have some thoughts and questions. Let's get this started!
** Warning Spoilers **
Questions:
1) Were the films showing an alternate universe or the future of the current universe?
2) Was Tagomi dreaming the entire time?
3) If events had already been changed, wouldn't that also render many of the films from the other "universe" somewhat unreliable, since already he's changing the timeline?
Hitler gains info about a way to "access" the future (maybe alternate reality) and enabled the NAZIs to correct mistakes that would have taken place for them to actually win WWII
I would assume that he was gathering them to keep out of the Allies hands but why the need for secrecy after they've already won? It doesn't seem that anyone outside of Japan would pose a threat, and from the tenor of the show Japan is already in a weakened position. How's a band of "rebels" really going to pose a threat?
Thoughts?
Wow, what a show and story.I know there's a season one thread, but I think having a theories thread might prevent inadvertent spoilers to those that haven't watched yet.
I definitely have some thoughts and questions. Let's get this started!
** Warning Spoilers **
Questions:
1) Were the films showing an alternate universe or the future of the current universe?
2) Was Tagomi dreaming the entire time?
3) If events had already been changed, wouldn't that also render many of the films from the other "universe" somewhat unreliable, since already he's changing the timeline?
Hitler gains info about a way to "access" the future (maybe alternate reality) and enabled the NAZIs to correct mistakes that would have taken place for them to actually win WWII
I would assume that he was gathering them to keep out of the Allies hands but why the need for secrecy after they've already won? It doesn't seem that anyone outside of Japan would pose a threat, and from the tenor of the show Japan is already in a weakened position. How's a band of "rebels" really going to pose a threat?
Thoughts?
6
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:17 pm to StarSaint
It's not an alternate reality, it's our dystopian future.
Everyone turns into Nazis or Weeaboos.
Everyone turns into Nazis or Weeaboos.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:21 pm to StarSaint
1. Has to be alternate because it was the same year. The show is set in 1962 I believe. I didn't catch any of the hints and was convinced the films were just well made propaganda.
2. I wish. I was hoping for a more realistic show but I've come to terms with it and can't wait for season 2.
2. I wish. I was hoping for a more realistic show but I've come to terms with it and can't wait for season 2.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:28 pm to Esquire
quote:
1. Has to be alternate because it was the same year. The show is set in 1962 I believe. I didn't catch any of the hints and was convinced the films were just well made propaganda.
Ah.
Well then I'm going with Japan didn't go full on retard and attack Pearl Harbor in '41. Germany runs over Europe, Japan overrun Asia. Both build up their forces and invade a U.S. still reeling from the Great Depression.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:28 pm to Esquire
Good points.
What I meant by "future" was that perhaps Hitler got the films during world war II (which enabled him to see into the '50's - 60's) at that time.
What I meant by "future" was that perhaps Hitler got the films during world war II (which enabled him to see into the '50's - 60's) at that time.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:44 pm to GoldenGuy
quote:
Well then I'm going with Japan didn't go full on retard and attack Pearl Harbor in '41. Germany runs over Europe, Japan overrun Asia. Both build up their forces and invade a U.S. still reeling from the Great Depression
Or launched a better attack.
There was a book about "what if" Japan invaded Hawaii after Pearl Harbor*, and located the carriers that were out training. We would have had no Pacific fleet and at the time the 17th largest Army in the World. Japan would have total sea control of the Pacific to start the war and that would have delayed our winning the war. (No doubt the US would still win, too large of numbers and material) ONLY developing the A-bomb first would have given the Axis the advantage.
They made mention in the first episode that VA day was in 1952, after DC was flattened by a Hydrogen bomb.
So something changed that pushed the war back, in this universe it's likely then that the US entered the war after the fall of Europe then.
* Days of Infamy series, a really good read.
This post was edited on 11/28/15 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 11/28/15 at 12:47 pm to Napoleon
I'm gonna check that book out.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Posted on 11/28/15 at 2:04 pm to StarSaint
It's based on a book by Philip K. Dick (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep - Blade Runner).
SPOILERS
FDR assassinated in 1933. Garner takes over and GOP wins in 36. USA stays isolationist and is wholly unprepared to support Allies or fight WWII (and also does not have the war run up spending to help with the Great Depression). Axis wins with Japan and Germany as superpowers.
SPOILERS
FDR assassinated in 1933. Garner takes over and GOP wins in 36. USA stays isolationist and is wholly unprepared to support Allies or fight WWII (and also does not have the war run up spending to help with the Great Depression). Axis wins with Japan and Germany as superpowers.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 2:55 pm to udtiger
I haven't gotten into the show but my husband loves it and is watching it right now. I did some reading and it seems there is no "alternate" universe so much as just someone producing propaganda films depicting what the U.S. would have looked like if things went differently. I read that the book has this same plot line but with a book instead of a film, something to do with the line in the bible about the grasshopper. I would be more interested if their was some kind of sci-fi twist (I like the idea of Hitler discovering time-travel) but it seems like it just is what it is which makes it not very interesting to me.
Wait, now I am reading there IS sci-fi involved? I have read both things so not sure which to believe. I guess I will watch this final episode and see if I may pick up for season 2.
Wait, now I am reading there IS sci-fi involved? I have read both things so not sure which to believe. I guess I will watch this final episode and see if I may pick up for season 2.
This post was edited on 11/28/15 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 11/28/15 at 3:06 pm to BigB0882
That makes no sense.
How would they get Frank in the film and the nazi guy that shoots him?
It was clearly both of them in the last film.
How would they get Frank in the film and the nazi guy that shoots him?
It was clearly both of them in the last film.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 3:13 pm to udtiger
Ya, I got a little ways into The Man in the High Castle book but didn't get past the whole setup first 50 pages or so, but I'm familiar with the movies made from his books and have read Ubik, so I'm fully prepared for some weird shite to happen.
Contemplating going back to the book or not and its a really tough decision, though from what I've read generally, they are deviating a bit from the book.
Contemplating going back to the book or not and its a really tough decision, though from what I've read generally, they are deviating a bit from the book.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 5:16 pm to GoldenGuy
I think the idea is supposed to be that Germany developed the bomb first, and that won them the war. That's the only real difference. Germany nuked DC, and we just surrendered everything to them rather than face total annihilation.
Eta: well I guess the above is wrong at least.
Eta: well I guess the above is wrong at least.
This post was edited on 11/28/15 at 5:22 pm
Posted on 11/28/15 at 5:19 pm to BigB0882
You shouldn't be posting in this thread if you haven't watched it. There definitely is an alternate universe, and there really isn't any other reasonable interpretation imo.
Posted on 11/28/15 at 11:55 pm to Peazey
From the book's Wikipedia page:
The show is LOSSELY based on the book. Just because there isn't a sci-if aspect in the book that doesn't mean there won't be one in the show. I really do think that there has to be an alternative dimension, Mr. Tagomi couldn't have dreamt about everything.
quote:
The assassination of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933 led to the weak governments of John Nance Garner (formerly FDR's Vice President) and subsequently of Republican John W. Bricker in 1941. Both failed to lead the country to recovery from the Great Depression and also maintained the country's isolationist policy against participating in World War II; thus, the US had insufficient military capabilities to defend itself against Japan in the Pacific. The Nazis conquered the Soviet Union and exterminated most of its Slavic peoples; allowing a few to live in reservations. In the Pacific, the Japanese destroyed the US Navy fleet in a decisive attack on Pearl Harbor, then conquered Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand and Oceania during the early 1940s. Afterwards, the Axis Powers, attacking from opposite coasts, conquered the coastal US and by 1947, the US and the remaining Allied forces had surrendered to the Axis.
The show is LOSSELY based on the book. Just because there isn't a sci-if aspect in the book that doesn't mean there won't be one in the show. I really do think that there has to be an alternative dimension, Mr. Tagomi couldn't have dreamt about everything.
This post was edited on 11/29/15 at 12:02 am
Posted on 11/29/15 at 1:46 am to Peazey
Yeah the last tagomi scene made it clear that there is an alternate reality/dimension.
Posted on 11/29/15 at 9:04 am to Cosmo
if you've read PKD's book, there is an explanation of the "alternate timeline" question that I think you all are asking about, but I've not seen the TV show so I'm not really sure it's the same question
if you want to know what the plot of dicks book you can find it online
if you want to know what the plot of dicks book you can find it online
Posted on 11/29/15 at 9:20 am to StarSaint
I haven't finished the show yet, but the book ends with the alternate universe, ours. I was expecting this from the show as well.
Posted on 11/29/15 at 9:52 am to StarSaint
I hated the ending. I never read the book so I wasn't really expecting a sci-fi type twist. If that's what it's going to turn into, then I'll probably not continue watching.
Posted on 11/29/15 at 10:30 am to hendersonshands
Just speculating a few things I'm unsure of here.
It seems to me Hitler is one step ahead of everyone because he knows why Rudy is there.
Not sure why Julianna let Joe go there at the end. What is his next move?
The final scene with trade minister I think is a way for the writers to confirm that yes there is some Scifi aspect in the show.
Looking to find out more about this. Really enjoyed the show so far.
It seems to me Hitler is one step ahead of everyone because he knows why Rudy is there.
Not sure why Julianna let Joe go there at the end. What is his next move?
The final scene with trade minister I think is a way for the writers to confirm that yes there is some Scifi aspect in the show.
Looking to find out more about this. Really enjoyed the show so far.
Posted on 11/29/15 at 10:58 am to StarSaint
quote:We're obviously dealing with some kind of parallel reality/universe outside a unitary, linear space-time continuum. But I don't have any solid answers. I've watched the final episode a few times. Then gone back to the first and a few other moments I consider key.
Just finished watching the first season. Wow, what a show and story.I know there's a season one thread, but I think having a theories thread might prevent inadvertent spoilers to those that haven't watched yet. I definitely have some thoughts and questions. Let's get this started! ** Warning Spoilers ** Questions: 1) Were the films showing an alternate universe or the future of the current universe? 2) Was Tagomi dreaming the entire time? 3) If events had already been changed, wouldn't that also render many of the films from the other "universe" somewhat unreliable, since already he's changing the timeline? Hitler gains info about a way to "access" the future (maybe alternate reality) and enabled the NAZIs to correct mistakes that would have taken place for them to actually win WWII I would assume that he was gathering them to keep out of the Allies hands but why the need for secrecy after they've already won? It doesn't seem that anyone outside of Japan would pose a threat, and from the tenor of the show Japan is already in a weakened position. How's a band of "rebels" really going to pose a threat? Thoughts?
This is apparently one adaptation for which the book isn't all that useful. The show uses the book's premise, but pretty much goes on its own program from there. The resistance (a central part of the show) is pretty negligible in the book. Not to mention the book's central prop is an actual, single book--not a series of films.
So in the show it appears that in "our" reality, Hitler is the Man in the High Castle and uses the films to stay one step ahead. He's somehow manipulated the notional resistance into risking their lives to keep him propped up while keeping most of the people closest to him in the dark--including high-ranking SS and Nazi officials.
This post was edited on 11/29/15 at 11:02 am
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