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Message
Not the greatest fan of Captain America: Civil War (Spoilers Within)
Posted on 5/29/16 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 2:53 pm
So I believe I am literally the last person to watch this movie. I saw it on Friday and have been letting it sink in for the last couple of days. I don't know why so many people were going nuts for this film earlier in the months. It's a decent movie but hardly great.
For one...I thought it was retarded how they shoehorned the fact that the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents into the plot. It's not enough that Rhodey was seriously injured in the fight at the airport to strengthen the divide between Team Captain America and Team Iron Man. We have to add an additional twist to the story and make Winter Soldier responsible for the death of Tony Stark's family. Stark predictably loses his crap even though he knew all too well that Bucky had no control over himself when he did it. I thought he was cool enough to keep raw emotion out of the equation. I guess not.
Also...I didn't like how they all of a sudden started making collateral damage a big part of the story. I'm pretty sure the entire world saw the Avengers do as much as they possibly could to save as many people as possible at Sorkovia. Age of Ultron went out of its way to show the Avengers saving people. In fact...they spent more time saving people in the final battle than they did fighting Ultron and his copies. And yet we're now supposed to believe they are out of control and need to be put under UN supervision? Sorry...not buying it. But we have to have conflict between the Avengers because the script calls for it.
To its credit, though, I will say this film did a MUCH better job of establishing the differing ideologies of the two lead characters then Batman v. Superman did.
As for my last criticism: the villain. Holy God. The villain. I love Daniel Bruhl. He's a talented actor with a bright future. But holy crap his is the worst villain of the MCU thus far. I hated his character and I hated his motivations. At the end of the day he was just a plot device.
On a positive note I really loved the performances from the two leads. Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr. are the two best things about the MCU. I feel the franchise will take a huge hit in quality once they exit for good.
It was also good to see Spider-Man in a MCU film for a change. I really liked how the actor played him and am looking forward to seeing him in his stand alone film here in the next year or two.
But at the end of the day this was a standard MCU film - popcorn entertainment that really does nothing to enhance or hurt the genre. I was entertained but there were fundamental problems I had with the plot that I think hurt the film from the word "go".
Final Grade: B.
For one...I thought it was retarded how they shoehorned the fact that the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents into the plot. It's not enough that Rhodey was seriously injured in the fight at the airport to strengthen the divide between Team Captain America and Team Iron Man. We have to add an additional twist to the story and make Winter Soldier responsible for the death of Tony Stark's family. Stark predictably loses his crap even though he knew all too well that Bucky had no control over himself when he did it. I thought he was cool enough to keep raw emotion out of the equation. I guess not.
Also...I didn't like how they all of a sudden started making collateral damage a big part of the story. I'm pretty sure the entire world saw the Avengers do as much as they possibly could to save as many people as possible at Sorkovia. Age of Ultron went out of its way to show the Avengers saving people. In fact...they spent more time saving people in the final battle than they did fighting Ultron and his copies. And yet we're now supposed to believe they are out of control and need to be put under UN supervision? Sorry...not buying it. But we have to have conflict between the Avengers because the script calls for it.
To its credit, though, I will say this film did a MUCH better job of establishing the differing ideologies of the two lead characters then Batman v. Superman did.
As for my last criticism: the villain. Holy God. The villain. I love Daniel Bruhl. He's a talented actor with a bright future. But holy crap his is the worst villain of the MCU thus far. I hated his character and I hated his motivations. At the end of the day he was just a plot device.
On a positive note I really loved the performances from the two leads. Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr. are the two best things about the MCU. I feel the franchise will take a huge hit in quality once they exit for good.
It was also good to see Spider-Man in a MCU film for a change. I really liked how the actor played him and am looking forward to seeing him in his stand alone film here in the next year or two.
But at the end of the day this was a standard MCU film - popcorn entertainment that really does nothing to enhance or hurt the genre. I was entertained but there were fundamental problems I had with the plot that I think hurt the film from the word "go".
Final Grade: B.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 2:54 pm
10
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:09 pm to RollTide1987
Tony Stark cures paralysis in the end, I hope he plans on mass producing that tech and giving it away for free. He's a pretty shitty superhero other wise
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:11 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I don't know why so many people were going nuts for this film earlier in the months. It's a decent movie but hardly great.
Shots fired
( I agree, btw)
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:28 pm to RLDSC FAN
I loved it. Told my parents to see it. They hated it. My mother thought it was boring and my dad fell asleep. "Why are these "heroes" fighting each other. Don't they have better things to be doing."
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:33 pm to RollTide1987
You're not the last
Saw it last night and really liked it. Of course I also really like batman vs superman.
Some people take comic book movies too seriously.
Saw it last night and really liked it. Of course I also really like batman vs superman.
Some people take comic book movies too seriously.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:33 pm to RLDSC FAN
He had a well thought out review and gave solid reasons. I agree with the collateral damage complaint but i loved the villain.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:39 pm to hawgfaninc
quote:
Some people take comic book movies too seriously.
Might be the biggest understatement this year
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:39 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
So I believe I am literally the last person to watch this movie. I saw it on Friday and have been letting it sink in for the last couple of days. I don't know why so many people were going nuts for this film earlier in the months. It's a decent movie but hardly great.
Not sure where I would put it on the list of MCU movies but it is easily behind Winter Soldier and Iron Man.
quote:
For one...I thought it was retarded how they shoehorned the fact that the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents into the plot. It's not enough that Rhodey was seriously injured in the fight at the airport to strengthen the divide between Team Captain America and Team Iron Man. We have to add an additional twist to the story and make Winter Soldier responsible for the death of Tony Stark's family. Stark predictably loses his crap even though he knew all too well that Bucky had no control over himself when he did it. I thought he was cool enough to keep raw emotion out of the equation. I guess not.
Not sure that I agree that they shoehorned it in that he killed them as much as conveniently revealing it. As for Stark losing his shite and abandoning reason when he finds out, most people would lose their shite finding out who killed their family even if it was revealed that they were mentally retarded and had no personal control. It is an understandable response.
quote:
Also...I didn't like how they all of a sudden started making collateral damage a big part of the story. I'm pretty sure the entire world saw the Avengers do as much as they possibly could to save as many people as possible at Sorkovia. Age of Ultron went out of its way to show the Avengers saving people. In fact...they spent more time saving people in the final battle than they did fighting Ultron and his copies. And yet we're now supposed to believe they are out of control and need to be put under UN supervision? Sorry...not buying it. But we have to have conflict between the Avengers because the script calls for it.
I thought there was a scene in which they discussed the collateral damage of New York in Winter Soldier or early in Avengers 2, it just finally came to a head when they went into the wrong territory without permission and raised a shite.
quote:
To its credit, though, I will say this film did a MUCH better job of establishing the differing ideologies of the two lead characters then Batman v. Superman did.
Let's be honest, outside of Dark Night, no DC movie of late can touch the MCU that is established. The writing is much better and the characters are just better. I really thought the MCU would struggle when they started introducing magic, space and mutation but they have still introduced them well.
quote:
As for my last criticism: the villain. Holy God. The villain. I love Daniel Bruhl. He's a talented actor with a bright future. But holy crap his is the worst villain of the MCU thus far. I hated his character and I hated his motivations. At the end of the day he was just a plot device.
I agree fully here, I hope that we haven't seen the end of him.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:49 pm to RLDSC FAN
Shots fired ( I agree, btw)
The whole Winter Soldier arc is a big downer for me. He's not a compelling or formidable villain, at all. And his very presence compromises Captain America's standing in the MCU. Off all the Marvel characters, Cap is the paragon of bedrock virtues: duty, honor, country. Yet, because Bucky and he were childhood friend Cap will overlook any and all evil and forgo his commitment to these values. (I didn't think WS was the be-all, end-all superhero movie, either.)
I just think it's funny that a lot of the posters here who absolutely crucified Man of Steel and BvS for having Superman deviate from his TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY!!! ideals just gloss over how easily Cap abandons his principles. (FTR, I'm not referring to his stance on oversight by a governmental body.)
I thought CW was a very entertaining movie, but not the cinematic landmark that a lot of people here proclaimed.
The whole Winter Soldier arc is a big downer for me. He's not a compelling or formidable villain, at all. And his very presence compromises Captain America's standing in the MCU. Off all the Marvel characters, Cap is the paragon of bedrock virtues: duty, honor, country. Yet, because Bucky and he were childhood friend Cap will overlook any and all evil and forgo his commitment to these values. (I didn't think WS was the be-all, end-all superhero movie, either.)
I just think it's funny that a lot of the posters here who absolutely crucified Man of Steel and BvS for having Superman deviate from his TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY!!! ideals just gloss over how easily Cap abandons his principles. (FTR, I'm not referring to his stance on oversight by a governmental body.)
I thought CW was a very entertaining movie, but not the cinematic landmark that a lot of people here proclaimed.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:53 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Bucky is basically Rogers' brother and Rogers was orphaned at a young age.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 4:32 pm to Warfarer
quote:
I thought there was a scene in which they discussed the collateral damage of New York in Winter Soldier or early in Avengers 2
It was mentioned in an earlier film, yes, but it wasn't nearly as touched upon as it was in this film. And New York shouldn't be put on the Avengers either. They saved the world from an alien invasion led by a being who wanted to subjugate them all. I'm sorry but the collateral damage aspect rings hollow when you realize what would have happened had they NOT been there.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 5:00 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Basically is not actually. Cap has always been sold as the shining light of American values (he's always been Marvel's moral counterpart to DC's Superman). The Winter Soldier story arc completely undermines that.
Besides, the obvious point that the Winter Soldier himself is a fairly mundane villain. That's why I'm hoping that when they showed him going into cryogenic storage that he stays there for several movies at least.
Besides, the obvious point that the Winter Soldier himself is a fairly mundane villain. That's why I'm hoping that when they showed him going into cryogenic storage that he stays there for several movies at least.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 5:23 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
For one...I thought it was retarded how they shoehorned the fact that the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents into the plot.
they didn't though.
that bomb was essentially dropped in CA2.
quote:
Also...I didn't like how they all of a sudden started making collateral damage a big part of the story. I'm pretty sure the entire world saw the Avengers do as much as they possibly could to save as many people as possible at Sorkovia. Age of Ultron went out of its way to show the Avengers saving people. In fact...they spent more time saving people in the final battle than they did fighting Ultron and his copies. And yet we're now supposed to believe they are out of control and need to be put under UN supervision? Sorry...not buying it.
You're crazy if you think a group like the Avengers wouldn't start to piss people off after a while. Sure, many would praise them but there absolutely would be a contingent of people pissed that they show up whenever, wherever they want leaving a massive about of destruction in their wake. This has been alluded to since Iron Man 2 when there are Congressional hearing on Stark refusing to take orders from the US govt. Even at the end of Avengers 1 there is a brief clip of a senator pissed at them for all the destruction in NYC.
IRL we have fools who think shite like Sandy Hook was a gov't conspiracy, the Clintons murdered people to keep them quiet, Bush purposely let 9/11 happen to start a war, and Obama is a secret Muslim out to destroy our country. You're telling me there wouldn't be a shite ton of people who would believe that the Avengers were the reason crazy shite they conveniently show up to stop was happening? (and in the case of Ultron they'd be 100% correct
) quote:
And New York shouldn't be put on the Avengers either. They saved the world from an alien invasion led by a being who wanted to subjugate them all.
That alien invasion happened b/c SHIELD, who the Avengers are closely associated with and was infiltrated by Hydra, was fricking w/the tesseract. That info would have been released by the data dump Black Widow dropped in CA2.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 5:39 pm to Dr RC
quote:
they didn't though.
that bomb was essentially dropped in CA2.
The only bomb that was dropped was that Hydra killed him. There are many people who worked for Hydra as we came to find out. Revealing that the Winter Soldier was the one who did it - as well as the way they did it - was very soap operaish.
quote:
That info would have been released by the data dump Black Widow dropped in CA2.
Then the people would know that the Avengers were put together to fix SHIELD's mistake. The group was not officially formed until AFTER Loki had taken the tesseract.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 5:57 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The only bomb that was dropped was that Hydra killed him. There are many people who worked for Hydra as we came to find out. Revealing that the Winter Soldier was the one who did it - as well as the way they did it - was very soap operaish.
It was heavily implied that the Hydra agent that killed them was Bucky in that scene.
quote:
Then the people would know that the Avengers were put together to fix SHIELD's mistake. The group was not officially formed until AFTER Loki had taken the tesseract.
So what?
Again, you are not accounting for how irrational and conspiracy prone the Joe Blows and Peggy Buckaloos of the world are.
The few real life conspiracies I listed alone are enough to show that.
The Avengers ended with a montage of news coverage where a US Senator was straight up shitting on the Avengers even though they saved NYC from aliens and a nuke.
Shitheads like him would have been hammering that home on sites like Infowars all the years between Avengers and CW. (I don't think it's an accident that the dude ripping them looks like known government conspiracy nutter US Rep Louie Gohmert BTW)
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 6:09 pm to Dr RC
quote:
It was heavily implied that the Hydra agent that killed them was Bucky.
Even if it was, it still doesn't change the fact that the way they used it was stupid and hamfisted.
quote:
Shitheads like him would have been hammering that home on sites like Infowars all the years between Avengers and CW. (I don't think it's an accident that the dude ripping them looks like known government conspiracy nutter US Rep Louie Gohmert BTW)
And how many rational people actually visit and post to Infowars on the reg?
This is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 6:14 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
And how many rational people actually visit and post to Infowars on the reg?
rational people aren't the problem.
that doesn't change that sites like Infowars are heavily trafficked and sadly have influence in this country as there are a lot of people who think they are getting "the real truth" when they read that tripe.
I see people link their shite far too frequently on social media and multiple times have had to point out to my boss and others how fricking stupid it is to parrot shite from there and places like it.
and sure, its your opinion but I just don't see how its a stretch to assume there would be a sizable amount of people that distrusted, feared, and even hated the Avengers.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 6:22 pm to Dr RC
quote:
and sure, its your opinion but I just don't see how its a stretch to assume there would be a sizable amount of people that distrusted, feared, and even hated the Avengers.
That's a fair point but it's the reason that people distrust, fear, and hate the Avengers that I have a problem with. Since the word "go" the Avengers have taken great pains to avoid collateral damage. We saw so many instances, especially in Age of Ultron, of the Avengers saving everyone and everything before dealing with the main threat. And yet collateral damage becomes the main reason as to why the Sokovia Accords are written and signed.
This after the filmmakers in past movies went out of their way to show the Avengers severely limiting collateral damage.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 6:22 pm to RollTide1987
I agree solid movie but at the end of the day people act like this was some masterpiece when in fact it had many of the same flaws that were in bvs which had a thread well over 100 pages of people bashing it on here. Not saying either were perfect but the it's funny how this board perceives the two movies just because one is mcu and the other is dc. It's like they've decided beforehand they're either gonna try and like the movie or try and hate it.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 6:32 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's a fair point but it's the reason that people distrust, fear, and hate the Avengers that I have a problem with. Since the word "go" the Avengers have taken great pains to avoid collateral damage. We saw so many instances, especially in Age of Ultron, of the Avengers saving everyone and everything before dealing with the main threat. And yet collateral damage becomes the main reason as to why the Sokovia Accords are written and signed.
I get that the Avengers take great care to avoid collateral damage and for the most part do a really good job of that.
But that ignores what happens when the media and politicians get involved and start feeding the whackadoo portion of the populace b/c they want ratings and donations. It ignores that teh populace doesn't get to see up close how much they try to stop damage. It ignores that they can't hear team members like Cap, Tony, and especially Hulk give themselves ulcers over people who get in the cross fire.
I'd like to believe that everyone would understand they are doing their best and want to limit damage but considering we have a Republican Presidential candidate who quotes the damn National Enquirer and his twitter feed as legit sources of info when he floats ridiculous garbage to attack his opponents... well... I just don't have much faith that people would understand how fricked they'd be if the Avengers decided to sit at home when the shite hits the fan.
I do admire your optimistic faith in people though.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 6:33 pm
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