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Message
re: Lost finale
Posted on 5/23/13 at 9:42 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 5/23/13 at 9:42 am to OMLandshark
quote:
OMLandshark
I'm glad you're on..after addressing the "did it really happen" question, when I saw all the rest of the questions I figured I'd just pass that chore on to you since I knew you could answer them 10 times better than I could anyway
0
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:00 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't understand why so many people still don't realize that everything happened. Christian point blank, flat out, directly said it to Jack. He said that it was real, everything actually happened. Then,
Jack: Are we dead?
Christian: Everybody dies Jack. Some before you, some loooong after you.
In the church, yes, everyone is dead and waiting to pass on into the afterlife. Some of them died before Jack, some (like hurley) died long after. But everything we saw on the island did in fact happen.
Exactly...I've talked to some people as well who were confrused by the finale, and they didn't realize that everything happened IRL. I told them the same thing, that Christian spelled it out to the letter to Jack in the church.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:09 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
As Christian Shephard said: Jack: And everyone else, they're all dead too? Christian: Everyone dies, Jack. Some before you, some long after you. Jack: Are they all here now? Christian: Well, there is no NOW here.
Ok, I must have missed a few parts as I was washing dishes as well.
quote:
the mother was both Jacob and the MiB incarnate.
makes sense.
quote:
The creators have come out and said that the Egyptians discovered the Island long ago
ok that is what I thought. I read a little on screenrant and it said the same thing. I just thought that the figure (Tawaret) had a significance since she was fertility god.
quote:
Whitmore and Dharma actually had no role at all in anything.
??? did you watch all the episodes
Really on what scale did they provide anything to the story? If Jacob would have brought Desmond to the island to eventually take the stone out, why didn't he just tell Richard or Desmond himself to do it so he could kill MIB and be done with it and preserve the island. All Charles did was want to get back to the island. He did and didn't provide any help to the story. Really just a fluff piece for intrigue.
The Dharma Init. was the same. They were there but actually had no actual part in the story beside fluff. They were just there to "try" to harness the power.
quote:
Time travel on the island. WTF? Never explained.
If the Jughead exploded and took out the Swan station. What happened to the future? In Fringe, it would change all the timelines and create an alternate universe. I believe JJ Abrams "fixed" that in Fringe.
quote:
Made sure the survivors came to the Island and put a ton of events into motion.
If Jacob could see that far, why didn't he just tell everybody what they needed to know in the first place.
quote:
Jacob couldn't do it, and neither could MIB. He couldn't take the cork out without being killed.
He could have just told Desmond when he got to the island...
quote:
The Island is basically the gates of hell. If the Island sank and was destroyed, darkness would have consumed the Earth. It's not surprising then that spirits of the dead would hang out in a place like this.
So it's basically like the river Styx.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 10:14 am
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:11 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
Also the actor for Jacob likes to play super supernatural characters.
Do you see what I did there?
Do you see what I did there?
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:17 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
If Jacob could see that far, why didn't he just tell everybody what they needed to know in the first place.
It didn't work like that. Jacob (and MIB) could guide the people, but they couldn't actually do things...it was like they were playing the game (chess, or backgammon since it was popular on the show) and the survivors were the pieces. And they were opposites, so for every time Jacob could show himself to someone or communicate to them, MIB could also do his thing to manipulate them as well.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:20 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
It didn't work like that. Jacob (and MIB) could guide the people, but they couldn't actually do things.
So the people had to know and want to do what they did. I think I remember that conversation now with Jacob and MIB.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:21 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
I think I remember that conversation now with Jacob and MIB.
The conversation on the beach? Yeah.
Also remember that MIB could transform into basically anything, so in a game of manipulation it would seem like he would have the advantage over Jacob.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:23 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
The Dharma Init. was the same. They were there but actually had no actual part in the story beside fluff. They were just there to "try" to harness the power.
I realize they were there to set off the motions for Desmond to not push the button and get the plane down. I guess it's just "off" for me because the show was so involved with them and that is all that is really involved with their story line. They are basically the group that the MIB was with along time ago.
The numbers went to flop also.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:28 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
I must have missed a few parts as I was washing dishes as well.
During the finale!? The dishes couldn't wait an hour?
Posted on 5/23/13 at 10:29 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
Sorry man I just don't think you
"Get it".
"Get it".
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:42 pm to tatervol
That it? Thought this was going to carry a little further. Oh well.
Posted on 5/25/13 at 7:51 pm to LSU=Champions
I hated most of the flashsideways because they wasted time that could be used to answer questions but they had a great payoff with each character's "wake up" moment.
People who think JJ had anything to do with Fringe or Lost after the first handful of episodes are kidding themselves.
quote:
I believe JJ Abrams "fixed" that in Fringe.
People who think JJ had anything to do with Fringe or Lost after the first handful of episodes are kidding themselves.
This post was edited on 5/25/13 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 5/25/13 at 8:06 pm to Uncle Stu
I wrote this after the finale aired:
The way I interpreted the ending of the series was that everything we have witnessed over the course of the series (the island, flashbacks, flash-forwards) was the actual life of the various cast-aways. The sideways world on the other hand was as Christian told Jack, “A place they created so they could all be together” and the light emitting through the church doors I take it was heaven. However, if that were the case, why create a place where Sayid and Kate were in jail, a pregnant Sun is shot in the stomach, and Locke is still in a wheel chair? Christian explains to Jack that there is no past, present, or future (which explained how some characters like Kate and Hurley were allowed to be present inside the church despite still being alive). These thoughts on time were very similar to the novel, The Slaughter House Five. Knowing this, it makes the flashbacks, present timeline, and flash-forwards all the more special.
The church scene is something I interpreted as a place where only good people are allowed into. Many may question why Sayid was allowed in after everything he did but we get a clue to this earlier in the episode when Hurley tells him he is a good person. This explains why Ben was content staying outside of the church. It also explains why people like Michael and Ana Lucia were not seen inside. As Michael said earlier in the season, those who did bad things were not allowed to move on and had to remain on the island for eternity as the whispers. I believe that had they not killed the Smoke Monster and let him finally “go home”, that instead of entering heaven at the church gates, they would all be entering hell instead. To me, the church scene was eerily similar to the Sopranos episode, “Blue Comet”. In it, Tony is dreaming and stays outside of a church where his dead cousin is inviting him in. The audience can hear the voices of Tony’s dead relatives emitting from inside the church. When asked if he will come in, Tony says it isn’t time yet.
As an ending to the series, I could not ask for anything more. I thought the ending to Lost was beautiful, sweet, and touching but I cannot help feel that the producers left out so much information. While the ending was incredibly moving and was able to be both spiritual and philosophical, it merely ended the story. It did not bother with answering the many questions that had been littered throughout the series. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two mysteries that were answered (Why Juliet said “It worked” and why Jack’s neck was bleeding). Despite all of this, it was still a phenomenal way to end the series, I have no complaints there. What I do have a problem with was season 6 as a whole. I just feel that they treaded water with the flash-sideways arc and that it could have been condensed in half the time. The producers may claim that they didn’t have time to answer all of these “minor” questions but they could have if they didn’t drag things out such as taking half the season for someone to finally be enlightened in the sideways universal and limiting the temple scenes. On a side note, in the season 6 premiere, when Flight 815 is experiencing turbulence, Rose tells Jack he can let go now. I think this is the actual moment that Jack died and what transpires in the side-ways world is actually the in-between world between their actual lives and heaven.
Several questions still remained. If this list seems extremely long, it only validates my point. Way too many questions went unresolved. This begs the question of why bother introduce a mystery if you have no interest in concluding it? Now, whenever I watch repeats, I cannot help but pick these errors out which will interfere with my ability to enjoy the story. I get that many of these mysteries were introduced before the series had an end date and they were trying to stretch out the series as long as possible but I cannot help but feel some of the filler in season 6 could have been tossed in place of the following puzzles:
The rules were never explained why Jacob and the Man in Black (who was never given a name, by the way) were not allowed to kill each other. The same can be said for the rules governing Ben and Widmore’s relationship. The mom said if people got to the light, everything as we know it would be over. We saw Jack and Desmond get to it and nothing bad happened. Who was in the cabin and who broke the ash to let them out? We never learn why Sun said “It’s him” when she saw Locke upon arriving to the hospital shortly after being shot. We never were told how Walt was special or how he appeared as “Giant Ghost Walt”. We never were told why mirrors were so prominent in the side-ways world. It was never explained how Jack saw Christian off-island in the hospital in the flash-forward or how Michael saw Christian on the freighter. I assumed this was the Smoke Monster but we were later told he cannot leave the island. We never got the answer to why Libby was in the mental institution in the original timeline. When the castaways were in the outrigger when they flashed threw time, they were being shot at by another outrigger. We never got to see who it was who was shooting them despite a number of instances where this could have been addressed. Instead of Illana dying in a pointless death that we have already seen with Artz, why couldn’t she have been the casualty of Juliet’s bullet on the out-rigger?
The way I interpreted the ending of the series was that everything we have witnessed over the course of the series (the island, flashbacks, flash-forwards) was the actual life of the various cast-aways. The sideways world on the other hand was as Christian told Jack, “A place they created so they could all be together” and the light emitting through the church doors I take it was heaven. However, if that were the case, why create a place where Sayid and Kate were in jail, a pregnant Sun is shot in the stomach, and Locke is still in a wheel chair? Christian explains to Jack that there is no past, present, or future (which explained how some characters like Kate and Hurley were allowed to be present inside the church despite still being alive). These thoughts on time were very similar to the novel, The Slaughter House Five. Knowing this, it makes the flashbacks, present timeline, and flash-forwards all the more special.
The church scene is something I interpreted as a place where only good people are allowed into. Many may question why Sayid was allowed in after everything he did but we get a clue to this earlier in the episode when Hurley tells him he is a good person. This explains why Ben was content staying outside of the church. It also explains why people like Michael and Ana Lucia were not seen inside. As Michael said earlier in the season, those who did bad things were not allowed to move on and had to remain on the island for eternity as the whispers. I believe that had they not killed the Smoke Monster and let him finally “go home”, that instead of entering heaven at the church gates, they would all be entering hell instead. To me, the church scene was eerily similar to the Sopranos episode, “Blue Comet”. In it, Tony is dreaming and stays outside of a church where his dead cousin is inviting him in. The audience can hear the voices of Tony’s dead relatives emitting from inside the church. When asked if he will come in, Tony says it isn’t time yet.
As an ending to the series, I could not ask for anything more. I thought the ending to Lost was beautiful, sweet, and touching but I cannot help feel that the producers left out so much information. While the ending was incredibly moving and was able to be both spiritual and philosophical, it merely ended the story. It did not bother with answering the many questions that had been littered throughout the series. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two mysteries that were answered (Why Juliet said “It worked” and why Jack’s neck was bleeding). Despite all of this, it was still a phenomenal way to end the series, I have no complaints there. What I do have a problem with was season 6 as a whole. I just feel that they treaded water with the flash-sideways arc and that it could have been condensed in half the time. The producers may claim that they didn’t have time to answer all of these “minor” questions but they could have if they didn’t drag things out such as taking half the season for someone to finally be enlightened in the sideways universal and limiting the temple scenes. On a side note, in the season 6 premiere, when Flight 815 is experiencing turbulence, Rose tells Jack he can let go now. I think this is the actual moment that Jack died and what transpires in the side-ways world is actually the in-between world between their actual lives and heaven.
Several questions still remained. If this list seems extremely long, it only validates my point. Way too many questions went unresolved. This begs the question of why bother introduce a mystery if you have no interest in concluding it? Now, whenever I watch repeats, I cannot help but pick these errors out which will interfere with my ability to enjoy the story. I get that many of these mysteries were introduced before the series had an end date and they were trying to stretch out the series as long as possible but I cannot help but feel some of the filler in season 6 could have been tossed in place of the following puzzles:
The rules were never explained why Jacob and the Man in Black (who was never given a name, by the way) were not allowed to kill each other. The same can be said for the rules governing Ben and Widmore’s relationship. The mom said if people got to the light, everything as we know it would be over. We saw Jack and Desmond get to it and nothing bad happened. Who was in the cabin and who broke the ash to let them out? We never learn why Sun said “It’s him” when she saw Locke upon arriving to the hospital shortly after being shot. We never were told how Walt was special or how he appeared as “Giant Ghost Walt”. We never were told why mirrors were so prominent in the side-ways world. It was never explained how Jack saw Christian off-island in the hospital in the flash-forward or how Michael saw Christian on the freighter. I assumed this was the Smoke Monster but we were later told he cannot leave the island. We never got the answer to why Libby was in the mental institution in the original timeline. When the castaways were in the outrigger when they flashed threw time, they were being shot at by another outrigger. We never got to see who it was who was shooting them despite a number of instances where this could have been addressed. Instead of Illana dying in a pointless death that we have already seen with Artz, why couldn’t she have been the casualty of Juliet’s bullet on the out-rigger?
Posted on 5/25/13 at 9:06 pm to JabarkusRussell
The dharma initiatives purpose was nothing more than to provide a piece of the puzzle for the survivors. It's just part of the mythos.
Their specific purpose in the Lost Universe is conducting experiments on the island as the island had strange properties which defied traditional science as well as space and time.
As for why the incident didn't create an alternate timeline ala Fringe; in the Lost universe space and time did not work the same. Faraday explains it well with "whatever happens, happens" plotted history cannot be changed. Anything they did to stop the incident actually caused it.
Time travel: honing the power of the donkey wheel in the earth causes the light and water to collide and run in unison. This causes the island to move through time and space. This is also the reason that the island is hard to find as its not always in the same location globally.
The Egyptian statue was of a fertility goddess. It's destruction was nothing but an omen and an Easter egg for all the major list fans.
Everyone dies, just at different times. After that they move to the "purgatory" to wait for each other.
Ben wasn't really a part of that group as he was always trying to kill them. We see that he is cleaning his life up and is actually probably spiritually ready to move on but is waiting for Alex and Rousseau to be "enlightened" so they can go together.
Vincent should have been in the church.
Their specific purpose in the Lost Universe is conducting experiments on the island as the island had strange properties which defied traditional science as well as space and time.
As for why the incident didn't create an alternate timeline ala Fringe; in the Lost universe space and time did not work the same. Faraday explains it well with "whatever happens, happens" plotted history cannot be changed. Anything they did to stop the incident actually caused it.
Time travel: honing the power of the donkey wheel in the earth causes the light and water to collide and run in unison. This causes the island to move through time and space. This is also the reason that the island is hard to find as its not always in the same location globally.
The Egyptian statue was of a fertility goddess. It's destruction was nothing but an omen and an Easter egg for all the major list fans.
Everyone dies, just at different times. After that they move to the "purgatory" to wait for each other.
Ben wasn't really a part of that group as he was always trying to kill them. We see that he is cleaning his life up and is actually probably spiritually ready to move on but is waiting for Alex and Rousseau to be "enlightened" so they can go together.
Vincent should have been in the church.
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