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Message
Kylo Ren was a great villain... Just different (SPOILERS)
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:18 pm
I thought Kylo Ren was not only a great villain but, a great character!
You could see from the very beginning what JJ tried to create. A tall, imposing figure with a mask that's used to strike fear in opponents eyes. Yet, he did not need it for any reason but to look menacing. Darth Vader on the other hand, needed it of course to survive. The fact that he voluntarily takes off the mask symbolizes that his role of evildoer is not truly a part of his identity, compared to Vader whose mask (one of the most iconic symbols of the dark side and evil) is vital to him. Vader needed anger and hate to simply allow himself to survive!
You could sense as the story went on that Ren became more and more insecure about his powers. Temper tantrums, his makeshift lightsaber, and Rey overpowering his force capabilities showed that he is not as powerful as his idol. Vader's character was welded from the pain and grief he experienced that was used in the Emperor's advantage to harness his hate into a nearly unstoppable force. Kylo simply does not have that anger in him yet and is, in turn, frustrated by his weaknesses. Most likely, he was swayed in an attempt by the Dark side to develop his powers like Lord Vader. But he has not experienced the trials and tribulations that forge such evil to make him as powerful as he thinks he should be.
This, if anything, shows that JJ and crew actually put forth effort into making the main villain of this new chapter of the saga. It would have been easy to make Kylo Ren into Darth Maul 2.0 and have this arse kicking villain with no emotional overtones just destroy shite. I think that's what some people wanted. But in reality, when he takes off the mask you can see "Ben" still in him. His emotions convey fear and indecisiveness as to who he is and what he wants to become. He is not fully committed to the Dark Side.
That's what makes Han's death so much more damning. He did it solely for the fact that it would make him look more evil to eyes of the Sith. There were no reasons to turn out this bad except for his selfish desires. And yet, still, his powers were no match for Rey once she realized her own connection with the force.
My point is (for the TL;DR crowd) that I think Ren's character is being trained into someone far more sinister than what Force Awakens portrayed him to be. I think showing his weaknesses in the film allows for a more complex character/villain arch that can be developed over subsequent movies.
I think the character and the actor who plays him did a fine job
You could see from the very beginning what JJ tried to create. A tall, imposing figure with a mask that's used to strike fear in opponents eyes. Yet, he did not need it for any reason but to look menacing. Darth Vader on the other hand, needed it of course to survive. The fact that he voluntarily takes off the mask symbolizes that his role of evildoer is not truly a part of his identity, compared to Vader whose mask (one of the most iconic symbols of the dark side and evil) is vital to him. Vader needed anger and hate to simply allow himself to survive!
You could sense as the story went on that Ren became more and more insecure about his powers. Temper tantrums, his makeshift lightsaber, and Rey overpowering his force capabilities showed that he is not as powerful as his idol. Vader's character was welded from the pain and grief he experienced that was used in the Emperor's advantage to harness his hate into a nearly unstoppable force. Kylo simply does not have that anger in him yet and is, in turn, frustrated by his weaknesses. Most likely, he was swayed in an attempt by the Dark side to develop his powers like Lord Vader. But he has not experienced the trials and tribulations that forge such evil to make him as powerful as he thinks he should be.
This, if anything, shows that JJ and crew actually put forth effort into making the main villain of this new chapter of the saga. It would have been easy to make Kylo Ren into Darth Maul 2.0 and have this arse kicking villain with no emotional overtones just destroy shite. I think that's what some people wanted. But in reality, when he takes off the mask you can see "Ben" still in him. His emotions convey fear and indecisiveness as to who he is and what he wants to become. He is not fully committed to the Dark Side.
That's what makes Han's death so much more damning. He did it solely for the fact that it would make him look more evil to eyes of the Sith. There were no reasons to turn out this bad except for his selfish desires. And yet, still, his powers were no match for Rey once she realized her own connection with the force.
My point is (for the TL;DR crowd) that I think Ren's character is being trained into someone far more sinister than what Force Awakens portrayed him to be. I think showing his weaknesses in the film allows for a more complex character/villain arch that can be developed over subsequent movies.
I think the character and the actor who plays him did a fine job
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:22 pm to OKtiger
He was a total goober without the mask
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:30 pm to OKtiger
I agree with you. I think some people were expecting Vader 2.0, but instead they got a Vader wanna be who is frustrated at himself and sees himself as weak and pathetic. His flawed lightsaber really symbolizes who he is. He's really how Anakin should have been at the end of Episode III. I think it's refreshing, and he was a great villain because of how he subverted expectations of the audience and himself. Can't wait to see where they take the character.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:36 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
He was a total goober without the mask
I get it but, you have to look at it with more depth than that to truly appreciate the character or not
(Not saying you have to like him at all)
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:44 pm to OKtiger
I agree. I came to really enjoy and appreciate what they were doing with him. I think everyone was expecting this BA who had his crap together which wouldn't really make sense giventhe fact he hadn't even completed his training and hadn't even really surrendered to the dark side. His tantrums were almost symbolic of what was going on inside of him. The fact he was so unpredictable and volatile was great IMO.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:49 pm to OKtiger
I got my kid a 31" tall Kylo Ren for Christmas. If he doesn't like him, I'm fricked.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:50 pm to AA7
I agree. And I can't wait to see where they go with his character for future films. I'm sure Snoke will form him into a bad arse for the next movie. Then they could go a couple of different ways for the last movie.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:51 pm to OKtiger
He was kind of a pussy.
I want some more backstory before making a final opinion of him. We just got a relatively small snapshot of a his character.
But I think you gave a very good explanation.
I want some more backstory before making a final opinion of him. We just got a relatively small snapshot of a his character.
But I think you gave a very good explanation.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:05 pm to OKtiger
Is he/Was he Han Solo and Princess Leia's son?
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:06 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
I thought Adam Driver was amazing as Kylo Ren. The whole movie you could see him struggling between the light and the dark. Made for a very dangerous and compelling villian.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:16 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
He was kind of a pussy.
I want some more backstory before making a final opinion of him. We just got a relatively small snapshot of a his character.
But I think you gave a very good explanation.
This post was edited on 12/18 at 2:54 pm
I don't know if most people caught the parallels with ROTJ and when he killed Han. Luke has much of that same internal turmoil in ROTJ leading up to the throne room scene - lack of confidence in his abilities, being torn between the dark and the light. When Luke made the decision to not kill Vader when he had the chance, it symbolized his final development as a character of light.
When Ren killed Han, he thanked him for releasing him. I interpreted it as Ren making that crucial, can't-look-back turn to the dark side.
I thought that was the most powerful scene in the movie.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:23 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:I agree completely.
When Ren killed Han, he thanked him for releasing him. I interpreted it as Ren making that crucial, can't-look-back turn to the dark side.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:26 pm to OKtiger
Idiots on here know he acted in Girls and therefore automatically discredit him. He's a good actor (best one on Girls for sure) and I'm excited to see him progress through the films.
I thought Kylo Ren was an awesome villain.
I thought Kylo Ren was an awesome villain.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:31 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
Kylo Ren has depth as a character. He's not yet completely formed and there's without question an internal struggle that Driver and the writers conveyed. I'm extremely pleased with how this movie sets up the upcoming movies.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:32 pm to OKtiger
I thought he was fricking awesome. Also I posted this in the other thread but it seems like it should go here as well.
Since Kylo seems to be an Oedipus character, anybody think he's gonna bang Leia in the next one and cut his eyes out in the third?
Just a theory but I think it's gonna happen.
Since Kylo seems to be an Oedipus character, anybody think he's gonna bang Leia in the next one and cut his eyes out in the third?
Just a theory but I think it's gonna happen.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:44 pm to Ibleedblackandgold
quote:i think his acting was good. but his voice with the mask off was horrible. I think thats why people are saying he did a bad job.
I thought Adam Driver was amazing as Kylo Ren. The whole movie you could see him struggling between the light and the dark. Made for a very dangerous and compelling villian.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:46 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
i think his acting was good. but his voice with the mask off was horrible. I think thats why people are saying he did a bad job.
It was his voice. I'm not sure what he could've done differently to mask his voice when he took his helmet off.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:56 pm to OKtiger
Best mindrape on screen since Evangelion
Posted on 12/18/15 at 4:29 pm to OKtiger
Adam Driver pulled it off big time. I came in wary of him in the role, but he won me over big time. very difficult to pull off what he did (showing the full range of emotions you described) but he did it.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 4:33 pm to OKtiger
its been said a couple of times but bares repeating...this is the kind of character and actor they should have made Anakin to be in the prequels.
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