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Started By
Message
re: Justice League News
Posted on 7/25/17 at 5:53 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Posted on 7/25/17 at 5:53 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Sorry, had to get ready for work. Here goes:
At the climax of The Greatest Action Scene Ever TWS's Hannibal Lecter/Bane face mask falls off bearing an uncanny resemblance to his boyhood buddy, Bucky. Cap even questions him. TWS's response? "Who's Bucky?" Obviously answering in the negative.
Does Cap stop and reflect,"Gee, I'm the result of a one in a hundred billion shot of being kept alive in a frozen glacier for decades as a result of my Super Soldier serum. I know this guy looks an awful lot like a guy I used to know six decades ago who, at the least, I witnessed falling to his death and, at most, I have no knowledge of him being injected with the serum. And since I have no knowledge of any technology developed in the ensuing decades to freeze/preserve humans as my circumstance was the result of a natural phenomenon the probability that this is actually Bucky strains the limits of logical thinking."
Does Cap even consider the possibility that Hydra, who has shown an amazing ability to infiltrate every layer of the opposition (a ridiculous plot point for another discussion) may have developed a doppelgänger of Bucky for the express purpose of defeating or killing him?
Does Cap even consider the most plausible explanation (assuming the possibility of that actually being Bucky) that Bucky simply went bad/mercenary and is a real live foe?
Nope! Captain America, who is the moral compass and center of the MCU and holds honor and integrity above all else, in that nano-second he sees someone (who, let's just remind ourselves, was ham handedly trying to kill him for the last several minutes) that looks like his buddy sells all he holds dear -Country, his team, Duty - down the river. Just like that.
At the climax of The Greatest Action Scene Ever TWS's Hannibal Lecter/Bane face mask falls off bearing an uncanny resemblance to his boyhood buddy, Bucky. Cap even questions him. TWS's response? "Who's Bucky?" Obviously answering in the negative.
Does Cap stop and reflect,"Gee, I'm the result of a one in a hundred billion shot of being kept alive in a frozen glacier for decades as a result of my Super Soldier serum. I know this guy looks an awful lot like a guy I used to know six decades ago who, at the least, I witnessed falling to his death and, at most, I have no knowledge of him being injected with the serum. And since I have no knowledge of any technology developed in the ensuing decades to freeze/preserve humans as my circumstance was the result of a natural phenomenon the probability that this is actually Bucky strains the limits of logical thinking."
Does Cap even consider the possibility that Hydra, who has shown an amazing ability to infiltrate every layer of the opposition (a ridiculous plot point for another discussion) may have developed a doppelgänger of Bucky for the express purpose of defeating or killing him?
Does Cap even consider the most plausible explanation (assuming the possibility of that actually being Bucky) that Bucky simply went bad/mercenary and is a real live foe?
Nope! Captain America, who is the moral compass and center of the MCU and holds honor and integrity above all else, in that nano-second he sees someone (who, let's just remind ourselves, was ham handedly trying to kill him for the last several minutes) that looks like his buddy sells all he holds dear -Country, his team, Duty - down the river. Just like that.
1
Posted on 7/25/17 at 5:56 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
GeauxTigerTM
Thanks for making my point.
At least Bruce Wayne's character was established and his decision to kill Superman was in line with who he was in the film.
Tony Stark's actions at the end of Civil War go against everything that was established about him in the previous and following films. Before Civil War he was hardly ever driven by emotion. Impulsive? Sure. But he never lived or made decisions by emotion - until Captain America: Civil War.
His entire blow up at the end of the film was totally against character. He was this arrogant, impulsive, rebel in all the other films that came before Civil War. But one conversation with a woman whose child died in Sokovia and all of a sudden he's a changed man.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:03 pm to Freauxzen
They've made this clear in the films. Getting angry enough to keep pumping rounds into a shield is par for the course, he knows he can get himself out of a jam.
Okay, can't let you get away with this one. No, they haven't. TWS's first appearance in the MCU is in this movie and the only scene prior to this one is the takedown of Nick Fury. Did any of his henchmen so much as say, "Look out, boys! We need to be careful cuz when he loses his shite he reverts to a 9year old noob in Modern Warfare and forgets his tactical training. If that happens one of us has to drag him to cover so he doesn't get blown away." I must have missed that snippet of dialogue.
And let's say that is true. That just reinforces my position of what a shitty villain he actually is. Have one of your teammates taunt him with a Terrell Owens touchdown celebration, wait for his tactical IQ to drop 100 points and then shoot him in the head.
Okay, can't let you get away with this one. No, they haven't. TWS's first appearance in the MCU is in this movie and the only scene prior to this one is the takedown of Nick Fury. Did any of his henchmen so much as say, "Look out, boys! We need to be careful cuz when he loses his shite he reverts to a 9year old noob in Modern Warfare and forgets his tactical training. If that happens one of us has to drag him to cover so he doesn't get blown away." I must have missed that snippet of dialogue.
And let's say that is true. That just reinforces my position of what a shitty villain he actually is. Have one of your teammates taunt him with a Terrell Owens touchdown celebration, wait for his tactical IQ to drop 100 points and then shoot him in the head.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:09 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Soldiers have a moral obligation to disobey unlawful orders. Once Cap knew SHIELD was under the control of HYDRA he had a moral obligation to disobey.
What did HYDRA's infiltration of SHIELD or anything else have to do with his decision to protect his boyhood friend? For your statement to be true, Cap had to think Nick Fury, Stark, Black Widow to be compromised. HYDRA and SHIELD had nothing to do with his emotional reaction to save Bucky.
What did HYDRA's infiltration of SHIELD or anything else have to do with his decision to protect his boyhood friend? For your statement to be true, Cap had to think Nick Fury, Stark, Black Widow to be compromised. HYDRA and SHIELD had nothing to do with his emotional reaction to save Bucky.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:25 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
What a damn cesspool. But it's so hard to stay away
It's pretty easy for an Ole Miss fan.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:42 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Tony Stark's actions at the end of Civil War go against everything that was established about him in the previous and following films
Dude he watches a video of someone killing his mom in cold blood. They would make anyone snap
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:45 pm to GeauxTigerTM
I like the Marvel movies as much as the DC movies. I don't play one off the other. I just got tired of the hysterical DC/Snyder bashing one here and try to point out the hypocrisy. You can set your watch to the responses on here if a DC trailer is released. "fricking Snyder! Too much CGI!" Has anyone watched the abattle of New York in Avengers? Aliens, flying slugs with teeth the size of aircraft carriers, green monster leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper, giant portal in the sky to another dimension. Any criticism here about that? Nope. Crickets on here.
At first, the Snyder criticism went from, "Well, he does a good job with the visuals and action but he sucks as a storyteller." In the ensuing 18 months the chattering masses on here have worked their frothing up to, "Even the look of it sucks! Too much CGI!!!" I simply got tired of the hive mind on here. I can watch the movies, recognize their flaws and still enjoy them. Even TWS I enjoyed. I just point out its warts because it gets lauded as one of the best of the genre when it is far from that. It's the complete lack of perspective and balance here that finally broke me.
Just a side note: for all the bashing Snyder gets in BvS about ridiculous plot points, did he get a writing credit? Shouldn't those criticisms be aimed at, oh, I don't know, the screenwriters?
At first, the Snyder criticism went from, "Well, he does a good job with the visuals and action but he sucks as a storyteller." In the ensuing 18 months the chattering masses on here have worked their frothing up to, "Even the look of it sucks! Too much CGI!!!" I simply got tired of the hive mind on here. I can watch the movies, recognize their flaws and still enjoy them. Even TWS I enjoyed. I just point out its warts because it gets lauded as one of the best of the genre when it is far from that. It's the complete lack of perspective and balance here that finally broke me.
Just a side note: for all the bashing Snyder gets in BvS about ridiculous plot points, did he get a writing credit? Shouldn't those criticisms be aimed at, oh, I don't know, the screenwriters?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:48 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Aliens, flying slugs with teeth the size of aircraft carriers, green monster leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper, giant portal in the sky to another dimension. Any criticism here about that? Nope. Crickets on here.
We already addressed this. It's the hyperreality problem
That marvel fight happens in daylight against a stationary grounded city landscape background.
DC decides to CGI the entire landscape and every fight happens at night in the rain. It's just too much. And even when they fight against a somewhat normal landscape they do unnecessary shite. Like Superman crow hopping an 18 wheeler or Aquaman's legolas slide.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 7/25/17 at 9:30 pm to Breesus
DC decides to CGI the entire landscape and every fight happens at night in the rain. It's just too much.
Well, Batman is a creature of the night so it's natural that most scenes involving his character occur at night. Especially when he has to maintain an alter-ego of Bruce Wayne. Fair point?
BvS will always be compared to Civil War since they were released fairly close to one another. It was the unrelenting bashing of DC/Snyder coupled with the universal praise here of Civil War that got me to stick my nose in these discussions.
The centerpiece of Civil War - the airport scene - bordered on farce. I mean the actors were all but breaking the fourth wall and winking at us to let us know they were in on the joke. Did anyone honestly think before that scene began that any of those characters were in danger of suffering so much as a hangnail? There's more implied violence in a Dancing With the Stars routine. That's why at the time I joked on here that can Avengers: The Musical be far behind? But, having said all that, I loved the movie despite the cheese and the terrible on-going Winter Soldier arc.
The scene in BvS where we first meet the Batman was fantastic. The girls'fear, the music, the off-camera screams, the moving shot up the stairway and hall, the bad guy chained to a radiator with the Bat brand on him. You're tense when the cops enter the room because you know Batman is playing by new rules in this one. And then, the payoff, the over the shoulder shot where we first see Batfleck concealed up along the roof line. Great scene.
And the warehouse fight scene is (in my opinion, admittedly. YMMV) the best fight/action scene in any superhero film. We see Batman unleashed and kicking arse. The inner-rage we always suspect that is brooding just below the surface of Bruce Wayne is on full display.We get to see some of the Bat-toys in action. (I see where in one of your other messages you give this scene credit) I think Snyder nailed this scene perfectly.
There's things about BvS that I would have changed. Eisenberg, less dream sequences, Eisenberg, the proximity of Gotham/Metropolis. Did I mention Eisenberg? But I still enjoy the movie and have no problems saying it's one of my favorite superhero movies.
*Minor digression: I loved Keaton and Bale as Batmen but they never really seemed imposing enough to me to be genuine arse-kickers. Say what you want, but Affleck's performance as The Caped Crusader fits the bill from a physical standpoint.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:11 pm to SoFla Tideroller
So War Machine wasn't crippled?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:11 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Well, Batman is a creature of the night so it's natural that most scenes involving his character occur at night. Especially when he has to maintain an alter-ego of Bruce Wayne. Fair point?
Absolutely. But there's no reason to CGI the entire world. That's what gets me. It's too much and it takes away from the movie.
Can you atleast agree that there is a Hyper reality differential in those movies? It's ok if you like it, but can you agree that it's there?
Most of Batman's scenes in The Dark Knight take place at night but they take place in this world. That's my problem. The current DCEU doesn't seem to take place on this earth. They're on some alternate universe plane of existence and it bothers me.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:22 pm to Breesus
You might be right. But what makes me laugh is the bashing DC gets for CGI and almost the same day Thor: Ragnarok's trailer dropped. Predictably, 7 of the first 8 comments were variations of "Looks awesome!"*. That trailer couldn't have been more CGIed if it was done by Pixar. It's that kind of thing that draws me into these kerfuffles - the blatant double standard.
*It does look fun. I'll be one of the first to see it. But, holy shite, was that enormous amounts of CGI.
*It does look fun. I'll be one of the first to see it. But, holy shite, was that enormous amounts of CGI.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:30 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Was War Machine hurt at the airport scene by an Avenger?
(Just watched it. He was hit by Vision after the battle scene when Cap was escaping. But I'll concede the point that was a continuation of the main fight. So, you're probably correct)
(Just watched it. He was hit by Vision after the battle scene when Cap was escaping. But I'll concede the point that was a continuation of the main fight. So, you're probably correct)
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:43 pm to Breesus
Can you atleast agree that there is a Hyper reality differential in those movies? It's ok if you like it, but can you agree that it's there?
I'll agree the climactic Doomsday scene was somewhat CGIed.
The scenes I described were pretty much live action with some effects dressing. Certainly no more so than any of the Marvel fare. Someone (maybe on here, can't recall) described Snyder's Doomsday fight as being "operatic" in it's delivery which I thought was a brilliant description and which I saw as a compliment. Not sure y'all would.
But I was already hooked in by the other action/fight scenes so when WW arrives I was pumped. Again, different strokes. Admittedly, I quit reading comics around 6th grade (way before you were born. I'm in Peej age range) so I wasn't up to speed or invested in the Doomsday origin part of the movie that sent some of y'all sideways.
Posted on 7/26/17 at 12:52 am to SoFla Tideroller
There were aspects of BvS that I definitely enjoyed, but the overall tone was overbearingly brutal on the viewer. I came away with "God, it must suck to be Superman or Batman, these guys are just fricking miserable".
Several of the Batman scenes were great; his intro (as mentioned) was awesome, as was the warehouse scene. He killed a few too many Russian thugs in the chase scene. I suppose you could say "it's more realistic that he would", but it is a bit of a jolt. However, Iron Man offs terrorists left and right in his movies, so there's that.
I guess the issue is maybe the comic book movies are getting a little too bloodthirsty (I definitely could see a Kingdom Come down the road). If it's "real", then yes, Batman and Iron Man have to kill those bad guys, instead of truss them up like they did in the 70's (my point of comic book reference).
But we bitch in the other direction too, when Star Wars doesn't grow up like we did (almost every complaint outside of wooden acting is the kiddie stuff they toss in).
Several of the Batman scenes were great; his intro (as mentioned) was awesome, as was the warehouse scene. He killed a few too many Russian thugs in the chase scene. I suppose you could say "it's more realistic that he would", but it is a bit of a jolt. However, Iron Man offs terrorists left and right in his movies, so there's that.
I guess the issue is maybe the comic book movies are getting a little too bloodthirsty (I definitely could see a Kingdom Come down the road). If it's "real", then yes, Batman and Iron Man have to kill those bad guys, instead of truss them up like they did in the 70's (my point of comic book reference).
But we bitch in the other direction too, when Star Wars doesn't grow up like we did (almost every complaint outside of wooden acting is the kiddie stuff they toss in).
Posted on 7/26/17 at 3:00 am to Scoob
It's not an either/or situation with me. While I personally prefer the darker/grittier tone of the Snyderverse (I thought it was great to see Batman fight no holds barred), I enjoy the Marvel movies, too. I do think Marvel is straying close to Biff! Pow! Kaboom! territory with their action but I still like their movies a great deal.
Posted on 7/26/17 at 8:35 am to Freauxzen
You mention several things I hadn't thought about. Completely agree with your assessment of Crossbones and Falcon. Appreciate it!
Posted on 7/26/17 at 9:39 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
But what makes me laugh is the bashing DC gets for CGI and almost the same day Thor: Ragnarok's trailer dropped. Predictably, 7 of the first 8 comments were variations of "Looks awesome!"*. That trailer couldn't have been more CGIed if it was done by Pixar. It's that kind of thing that draws me into these kerfuffles - the blatant double standard.
"Looks awesome" - when something is full of vibrant colors and details, most people say it looks awesome b/c it is visually appealing, which in turn usually makes them feel happy or excited.
"looks dull" - when something lacks color and all you see is dark tones of colors that actually are bright, most people say it looks dull, and it makes them feel dull.
Here's a picture of real color
and here's the same scene from the movie, dulled down.
what is the point of that? why does everything have to be so devoid of color in the DC movies. It was great to see something visually appealing in Wonder Woman. Outside of the final scene in Wonder Woman, most of the movie felt like it happened during the day. Suicide Squad felt like the entire movie happened at night.
Posted on 7/26/17 at 9:40 am to SoFla Tideroller
Regardless of the snarky comments I can at least see what you're saying right up until you get to here:
At no point does he do this.
Country: SHIELD is an international organization, not a US one.
Team: His team isn't even in The Winter Soldier, and the few parts of his team that do participate are completely on his side, since the other side is HYDRA/SHIELD.
You seem to be bleeding The Winter Soldier and Civil War together. The villain in TWS is HYDRA, not Bucky. The villain in Civil War is Zemo, not Bucky.
You keep saying Cap "abandoned his moral compass" when Cap was the only one that didn't have some sort of knee-jerk freak out and stayed focused on the actual villains in both of these movies.
quote:
sells all he holds dear -Country, his team, Duty - down the river. Just like that.
At no point does he do this.
Country: SHIELD is an international organization, not a US one.
Team: His team isn't even in The Winter Soldier, and the few parts of his team that do participate are completely on his side, since the other side is HYDRA/SHIELD.
You seem to be bleeding The Winter Soldier and Civil War together. The villain in TWS is HYDRA, not Bucky. The villain in Civil War is Zemo, not Bucky.
You keep saying Cap "abandoned his moral compass" when Cap was the only one that didn't have some sort of knee-jerk freak out and stayed focused on the actual villains in both of these movies.
Posted on 7/26/17 at 9:49 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
You might be right. But what makes me laugh is the bashing DC gets for CGI and almost the same day Thor: Ragnarok's trailer dropped. Predictably, 7 of the first 8 comments were variations of "Looks awesome!"*. That trailer couldn't have been more CGIed if it was done by Pixar. It's that kind of thing that draws me into these kerfuffles - the blatant double standard.
meh...the chip on the DC people's shoulder has gotten tired. They act like its a grand conspiracy to blindly support Marvel and bash DC. Even going as far as to say Disney is paying critics off after Suicide Squad was getting ripped.
Then Wonder Woman comes out and is both a critical and financial success. The difference? It was en enjoyable movie (I'm guessing, haven't seen it yet).
I'd say 90+% of the movie going audience could give a rat's arse about loyalty to DC or Marvel, its just about putting out entertaining movies. Suicide Squad and BvS were shite movies, the little butt hurt rolltide can do all the mental gymnastics he wants to argue they're good but they sucked.
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