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re: Homeland season 2
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:23 am to Billy Mays
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:23 am to Billy Mays
quote:
Peter Quinn was predictably outed as someone with a secret and untrustworthy. Estes pigeonholed him into this project as a contingency, and Estes "wants to kill terrorists" by any means necessary. He's essentially playing his Walden card with these hardline decisions.
Estes is the mole. Peter X (Quinn) is his right hand plus eyes and ears on the Nazir ops.
Saul basically called out Estes while the op was going down which leads me to think Estes will take measures to neutralize Saul, whether it be getting Saul fired (by blaming this last failed Nazir op on Saul) or by getting Peter X to take him out.
I think this last FBI/CIA Nazir op was legit and it is Estes and Peter X that are Nazir's guys on the inside. Hell Peter X may have never been a CIA analyst before Estes brought him in to oversee the Nazir terror plot investigation.
I think Estes is ultimately trying to extricate himself from being Nazir's inside guy. That is why he got Peter X to go kill Brody because Brody obviously knows that there is a mole and Estes can't have anyone who might figure out he is the mole. I think he still needs Brody alive until Nazir is taken in or killed though because Brody will remain an integral part of any such operation. Estes ultimately wants Nazir dead because Estes only cares about preserving his own arse.
1
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:30 am to Decatur
good theory 
who is the F. Murray Abraham character (Dar something?) and how does he figure into this?
who is the F. Murray Abraham character (Dar something?) and how does he figure into this?
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:33 am to brbengalgal
i really dont think there is a mole. The whole thing last night goes to show that there is a side plan amonst the US special ops going down to take care of Brody once his usefulness is up, it has nothing to do with an inside man for Nazir.
This post was edited on 11/26/12 at 10:35 am
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:43 am to CE Tiger
Does anyone else think Brodi tipped off Nazir into not being in that vehicle?
I do.
I do.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:43 am to Cosmo
quote:
I'm convinced Chris is a inside joke among the writers and producers to troll us
I jokingly entertain the theory that he's actually Mike's kid
Posted on 11/26/12 at 10:49 am to CE Tiger
There is a mole. The razor blade, Roya's contact inside, etc. However, I don't think the producers really want to make the mole part of the storyline (at least not yet).
They just use the mole as a story-telling device moreso than an actual plot line.
The mole is largely irrelevant for now. It gets a lot of discussion but I think the producers are keeping their options open as to who it is and when they want to tell us.
They just use the mole as a story-telling device moreso than an actual plot line.
The mole is largely irrelevant for now. It gets a lot of discussion but I think the producers are keeping their options open as to who it is and when they want to tell us.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 11:10 am to Billy Mays
quote:
There is a mole. The razor blade, Roya's contact inside, etc. However, I don't think the producers really want to make the mole part of the storyline (at least not yet).
Why would Peter X surreptitiously go meet a known terrorist contact? Saul apparently has had his doubts about Peter and since Saul flushed him out Saul knows that Estes has been behind him. This makes me worry a bit about Saul. Estes isn't about to let Saul rain on his parade.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:06 pm to Decatur
quote:
a known terrorist contact
when did they say he was this? i though Saul said it was a guy he used to run OPs under.
quote:
Later in the episode, he is seen getting on a bus to meet with Dar Adul (F. Murray Abraham), a well-known CIA intelligence operative
This post was edited on 11/26/12 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:40 pm to Decatur
quote:
Why would Peter X surreptitiously go meet a known terrorist contact?
He didn't meet with a known terrorist contact. He met with a guy named Dar Adul, who is apparently the head of the CIA Black Ops division. Peter X is one of his agents.
Saul said that he had only met Dar Adul once and that, at that time, he was running company operations into Somalia that those within the CIA didn't even like to talk about.
This post was edited on 11/26/12 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:45 pm to RollTide1987
the CIA within the CIA
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:47 pm to Decatur
I don't see Estes as anything more than a politico, cover-your-arse, tie-it-off, Walden bitch boy.
Saul is the moral compass of the show - he's not a mole.
I doubt any of the main characters would be revealed as a mole. They invested way too much in Saul, Estes, etc to just have them all of sudden be revealed as a terrorist. It would cheapen everything.
If they ever do decide to push the mole story arc (which they haven't really at all) I think it would be a side character like Galvez IMO.
Saul is the moral compass of the show - he's not a mole.
I doubt any of the main characters would be revealed as a mole. They invested way too much in Saul, Estes, etc to just have them all of sudden be revealed as a terrorist. It would cheapen everything.
If they ever do decide to push the mole story arc (which they haven't really at all) I think it would be a side character like Galvez IMO.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:55 pm to Billy Mays
its been so long since theyve pushed the mole angle that it really is seeming to just be a matter of an extra layer of suspense, not actually a primary storyline.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 1:55 pm to RollTide1987
I dont think there is a "mole," I think Estes and Quinn are actually working directly for Dar Adul at Walden's behest and that requires them to plant info with Roya.
when saul found the Brody video in Lebanon, he came back and brought it to carrie first and said "this is the only piece of evidence from Lebanon Estes's goons hasnt seen yet and i thought you should see it first."
I think Estes is banking on walden becoming President and Estes will become CIA Director if he remains loyal. Dar Adul would have answered directly to Walden when he was CIA Director so no doubt Walden knows what Dar Adul is up to.
I think Estes is working an angle to manipulate the situations and use Brody for the CIA's gain. That is how Roya knew the combination on Estes safe, what was in it, Estes took the meeting with Brody in the room, Estes stayed out long enough for Brody to retrieve the data, Roya knew what they found in lebanon and knew that the tailor in gettysburg was in jeopardy, etc
Estes is working as a quasi double agent to further some unknown plan. Quinn was going to whack Brody after they confirmed Nasir was dead because Brody was no longer useful and he is a traitor
when saul found the Brody video in Lebanon, he came back and brought it to carrie first and said "this is the only piece of evidence from Lebanon Estes's goons hasnt seen yet and i thought you should see it first."
I think Estes is banking on walden becoming President and Estes will become CIA Director if he remains loyal. Dar Adul would have answered directly to Walden when he was CIA Director so no doubt Walden knows what Dar Adul is up to.
I think Estes is working an angle to manipulate the situations and use Brody for the CIA's gain. That is how Roya knew the combination on Estes safe, what was in it, Estes took the meeting with Brody in the room, Estes stayed out long enough for Brody to retrieve the data, Roya knew what they found in lebanon and knew that the tailor in gettysburg was in jeopardy, etc
Estes is working as a quasi double agent to further some unknown plan. Quinn was going to whack Brody after they confirmed Nasir was dead because Brody was no longer useful and he is a traitor
Posted on 11/26/12 at 2:03 pm to NoSaint
quote:
its been so long since theyve pushed the mole angle that it really is seeming to just be a matter of an extra layer of suspense, not actually a primary storyline.
Yeah pretty much. It has become a device used to get Roya the inside information that she pings back to Nazir so he can come up with plans.
Next Episode Teaser
2
Posted on 11/26/12 at 2:54 pm to Billy Mays
I started watching the series over the holiday weekend. First thanks everyone for the recommendation to watch, second do they explain why/how Tom Walker was turned? I am at episode 5 season 2
Posted on 11/26/12 at 3:12 pm to miamitiger
quote:
First thanks everyone for the recommendation to watch
You've made a wise choice
quote:
second do they explain why/how Tom Walker was turned?
They sure don't
Posted on 11/26/12 at 3:17 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
He didn't meet with a known terrorist contact. He met with a guy named Dar Adul, who is apparently the head of the CIA Black Ops division. Peter X is one of his agents.
Saul said that he had only met Dar Adul once and that, at that time, he was running company operations into Somalia that those within the CIA didn't even like to talk about.
Ah I heard it wrong
This still opens up a whole new can of beans
Posted on 11/26/12 at 3:28 pm to Decatur
quote:
This still opens up a whole new can of beans
Indeed. It also explains Quinn's behavior during Brody's interrogation and the fact that Carrie nor Saul had ever seen him on the analyst floor before.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 3:48 pm to Decatur
It means that Estes doesn't trust Saul, and/or doesn't believe Saul can make, what Estes believes, are the necessary calls to "kill terrorists".
Estes is turning out to be a pretty big POS. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with him being tied to Walden and wanting to get the CIA director position. He has really sold his soul to Walden this season.
Saul is the more cautious and wants to find the pertinent answers instead of resorting to simply killing people or blowing shite up.
It's two separate viewpoints and will make for interesting clashes in the last 3 episodes for sure.
Estes is turning out to be a pretty big POS. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with him being tied to Walden and wanting to get the CIA director position. He has really sold his soul to Walden this season.
Saul is the more cautious and wants to find the pertinent answers instead of resorting to simply killing people or blowing shite up.
It's two separate viewpoints and will make for interesting clashes in the last 3 episodes for sure.
Posted on 11/26/12 at 4:00 pm to supatigah
quote:
Estes is working as a quasi double agent to further some unknown plan.
Do we even know who the current DCI is in this series?
quote:
I think Estes is working an angle to manipulate the situations and use Brody for the CIA's gain. That is how Roya knew the combination on Estes safe, what was in it, Estes took the meeting with Brody in the room, Estes stayed out long enough for Brody to retrieve the data, Roya knew what they found in lebanon and knew that the tailor in gettysburg was in jeopardy, etc
So Estes is going to make his own job harder (with the possibility of a successful attack happening) just so he can play a deeper game? I can't imagine what that game is at this point.
quote:
Quinn was going to whack Brody after they confirmed Nasir was dead because Brody was no longer useful and he is a traitor
Dunno if that is the reason although I can't quite get why he was going to do it. I do think that something stinks in Denmark though. They wouldn't kill a sitting Congressman just like that if only because he was a traitor (even though he was now working for them as a double).
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