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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 7/9/14 at 12:30 pm to chryso
Posted on 7/9/14 at 12:30 pm to chryso
Agreed.
Like I said, they should just leave it at finishing the series in 8 seasons. That should suffice. Martin is delusional if he think it's going to take 3 season to cover AFFC and ADWD like he's said in the past.
Like I said, they should just leave it at finishing the series in 8 seasons. That should suffice. Martin is delusional if he think it's going to take 3 season to cover AFFC and ADWD like he's said in the past.
1
Posted on 7/9/14 at 12:51 pm to ladytiger118
It won't even take two, IMO. HBO is NOT going to go into Dorne/Iron Islands like we think they will. The current storylines are too watered down as is. You'd literally be facing 4-5 mins a character/storyline per episode.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 12:57 pm to NIH
They're casting a good majority of the Dorne folks, so I wouldn't be surprised if they flesh that out. Or even add new content as they have with other storylines.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 12:59 pm to Analyze That
Speaking of Bloodlines, do y'all think that Brienne is descended from Dunk? Maybe the puppet girl too. who was also tall? It's implied that Dunk goes to Dorne to find her.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 1:00 pm to craigbiggio
[quote]Just finished the fifth book, now I get to post in the reader thread and read all 850 pages of this one
[
pretty good overview of this thread you are welcome
[
pretty good overview of this thread you are welcome
This post was edited on 7/9/14 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 7/9/14 at 1:10 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
They're casting a good majority of the Dorne folks, so I wouldn't be surprised if they flesh that out. Or even add new content as they have with other storylines.
Yeah, I expect to see stuff beyond what the books have gotten to for Dorne.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 1:38 pm to NIH
Agreed. I don't think we're going to see the IronBorn or Dornish in 8 out of 10 episodes. There isn't even enough material in the 2 books for that.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 1:41 pm to ladytiger118
That's a shame. What's the point of glossing over the story? What's the rush? Sure we all want to know how it ends. But why would they completely skip entire storylines? You don't like that part of the book? Well guess what? It's somebody else's favorite part of the entire series.
The worst possible outcome for both show watchers and readers would be if D&D sprinted past GRRM and completely summarized what happened just to get to a watered down version of the story
The worst possible outcome for both show watchers and readers would be if D&D sprinted past GRRM and completely summarized what happened just to get to a watered down version of the story
Posted on 7/9/14 at 2:20 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
Listening to commentary and watching the "making of" in my season 1 set, I hear Dan and David sound really possionate about telling the story, but at the same time one of the main reasons why they wanted to adapt the series is because they really wanted to show the shock of The Red Wedding. To me it showed in season 4 that they got what they wanted and now instead of telling the story they're just trying to get a shock out of people and remain popular.
One way it shows is the handling of The Wall and The Eyrie this past season.
With The Wall they wanted to have another Black Water, which ended up being slapped together and very cliché. The whole little kid getting his revenge and giving the nod to Jon was very 80s/90s action movie and predictable.
While the Craster's Keep stuff was a decent change, I wouldn't have been that hard to have Ramsey send people looking for Bran in Season 3 just like in ASoS, instead of sending Locke to the NW, which he some how got there in a matter of days and didn't get caught by Wildings on The Kings Road. With that they missed on introducing a mysterious character in Cold Hands who they could have showed through the eyes of Summer killing the deserters and adding to the mystery of who is Bran is going after.
Then there is also the way they handled Bloodraven, who apparently lives in the brightest cave in the universe. I can understand what it would have taken to create a very book like Bloodraven but that goes back to the light in the cave. They could have shrouded him in black and not shown any of him except one bright red eye, leaving the audience asking, "whoa, what and who was that!" Leaving them time for the next season to build the makeup and effects to get a good looking Bloodraven. Instead it was Gandalf in Obi-wan's clothes sitting under a tree.
As for the Eyrie, well, the whole reveal of Jon's death was just placed in some love babbling dialogue when Jon Arryn hadn't been talked about since season one. What they could have done there was, while in the Eyrie Lysa continues to talk about Jon Arryn's short comings letting the audience become familiar with the character. Then just like at the Moon Door she reveals everything, again letting the audience be caught completely off guard. When she spilled the beans too early it left the audience knowing that her death was eminate
Then there is Sansa, who has always been completely naive even after seeing atrocities, becomes one of the smartest characters in a span of 6 episodes.
One way it shows is the handling of The Wall and The Eyrie this past season.
With The Wall they wanted to have another Black Water, which ended up being slapped together and very cliché. The whole little kid getting his revenge and giving the nod to Jon was very 80s/90s action movie and predictable.
While the Craster's Keep stuff was a decent change, I wouldn't have been that hard to have Ramsey send people looking for Bran in Season 3 just like in ASoS, instead of sending Locke to the NW, which he some how got there in a matter of days and didn't get caught by Wildings on The Kings Road. With that they missed on introducing a mysterious character in Cold Hands who they could have showed through the eyes of Summer killing the deserters and adding to the mystery of who is Bran is going after.
Then there is also the way they handled Bloodraven, who apparently lives in the brightest cave in the universe. I can understand what it would have taken to create a very book like Bloodraven but that goes back to the light in the cave. They could have shrouded him in black and not shown any of him except one bright red eye, leaving the audience asking, "whoa, what and who was that!" Leaving them time for the next season to build the makeup and effects to get a good looking Bloodraven. Instead it was Gandalf in Obi-wan's clothes sitting under a tree.
As for the Eyrie, well, the whole reveal of Jon's death was just placed in some love babbling dialogue when Jon Arryn hadn't been talked about since season one. What they could have done there was, while in the Eyrie Lysa continues to talk about Jon Arryn's short comings letting the audience become familiar with the character. Then just like at the Moon Door she reveals everything, again letting the audience be caught completely off guard. When she spilled the beans too early it left the audience knowing that her death was eminate
Then there is Sansa, who has always been completely naive even after seeing atrocities, becomes one of the smartest characters in a span of 6 episodes.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 2:37 pm to thatguy1892
I agree. It seems they make changes just for the sake of making changes at times. They create hit or miss scenes that stray from the books. I understand there's a need for that sometimes but other times it kind of ruins the show if you've read the books. Like many of the scenes you've mentioned.
And as far as people saying ah the show can leave out Coldhands, Uncat, Strong Belwas etc, how much does that suck for show watchers just because they aren't absolutely essential to the very end of the series and D&D rush through just so they can tell the gist of the story.
So after the series finale you turn to your Hodor friends and say oh yea Catelyn actually comes back in the books as a fricking zombie and goes through the Riverlands hanging every motherfricker that even resembles a Frey. Oh and she hung Brienne and Pod too. But it really wasn't that cool or a part of the overall story arc of Jon and Dany ruling Westeros as Bro/Sis Hubby/Wifey
And as far as people saying ah the show can leave out Coldhands, Uncat, Strong Belwas etc, how much does that suck for show watchers just because they aren't absolutely essential to the very end of the series and D&D rush through just so they can tell the gist of the story.
So after the series finale you turn to your Hodor friends and say oh yea Catelyn actually comes back in the books as a fricking zombie and goes through the Riverlands hanging every motherfricker that even resembles a Frey. Oh and she hung Brienne and Pod too. But it really wasn't that cool or a part of the overall story arc of Jon and Dany ruling Westeros as Bro/Sis Hubby/Wifey
This post was edited on 7/9/14 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:18 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
The thing that bothers me the most about leaving those characters out (which each one still has time to be in there especially Belwas, who is from Meereen), is that it would have cost anything to really out them in there. And in the case of Coldhand, could have possibly been cheaper than devoting two halves of an episode to Crasters.
And while I do kinda agree with you on those characters not really having to much to do with the story, we haven't seen enough of Coldhands or Stoneheart to know their true importance.
In the case of Stoneheart, we have a reanimated Cat, who at the end of her first life was trying to find justice while trying to get her children back at the cost of no one's life. Now we have Stoneheart who only seeks revenge and will kill anyone and everyone that gets in her way. This comes in the series where you start seeing the lands make transition. Not just from fall to winter, but from the aftermath of a war that has almost destroyed the realm. Also to add the changes in Slavers Bay. We also see the changes in the people.
Tyrion who is calculative and tries to see the bright side, goes dark and unpredictable.
Arya, with whatever innocence she had and dreams of wanting to become a strong woman, becomes even more vengeful, and leaves her homeland to become and assassin.
Bran, wanted to be a knight but instead it looks as if he'll be a wizard.
Jon, from soldier to leader.
Jamie, from giving up on his honor to trying to revive it.
Davos, from a upstart, to a very calculative strong Hand. Even if it is mangled.
Cersei, who during this time we finally get a good look at, but when we do, it's her falling into madness.
Theon, who was confident and his only flaw was constantly looking for acceptance, loses that confidence and wish to be expelled from his misery.
Sansa as she VERY slowing grows out of her naïveté and pays closer attention to the details.
And Dany who stays at Meereen believing that she can become a strong ruler by experimenting on an age old kingdom controlled by slavers. Which we find out in 6 chapters she is not capable of doing. At least by herself.
All this is one of the reason way I don't understand the hate for AFfC and ADwD. They're transition books that set up the next events in the series. Plus they show the reader and wonderful layout of the realm in part that we did not see before except in the maps in the front of the books.
But like I was saying Stoneheart is important because she is a transitioning character. Belwas and Coldhands maybe not so much but we won't really know until they are needed.
And while I do kinda agree with you on those characters not really having to much to do with the story, we haven't seen enough of Coldhands or Stoneheart to know their true importance.
In the case of Stoneheart, we have a reanimated Cat, who at the end of her first life was trying to find justice while trying to get her children back at the cost of no one's life. Now we have Stoneheart who only seeks revenge and will kill anyone and everyone that gets in her way. This comes in the series where you start seeing the lands make transition. Not just from fall to winter, but from the aftermath of a war that has almost destroyed the realm. Also to add the changes in Slavers Bay. We also see the changes in the people.
Tyrion who is calculative and tries to see the bright side, goes dark and unpredictable.
Arya, with whatever innocence she had and dreams of wanting to become a strong woman, becomes even more vengeful, and leaves her homeland to become and assassin.
Bran, wanted to be a knight but instead it looks as if he'll be a wizard.
Jon, from soldier to leader.
Jamie, from giving up on his honor to trying to revive it.
Davos, from a upstart, to a very calculative strong Hand. Even if it is mangled.
Cersei, who during this time we finally get a good look at, but when we do, it's her falling into madness.
Theon, who was confident and his only flaw was constantly looking for acceptance, loses that confidence and wish to be expelled from his misery.
Sansa as she VERY slowing grows out of her naïveté and pays closer attention to the details.
And Dany who stays at Meereen believing that she can become a strong ruler by experimenting on an age old kingdom controlled by slavers. Which we find out in 6 chapters she is not capable of doing. At least by herself.
All this is one of the reason way I don't understand the hate for AFfC and ADwD. They're transition books that set up the next events in the series. Plus they show the reader and wonderful layout of the realm in part that we did not see before except in the maps in the front of the books.
But like I was saying Stoneheart is important because she is a transitioning character. Belwas and Coldhands maybe not so much but we won't really know until they are needed.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:25 pm to thatguy1892
quote:
Then there is Sansa, who has always been completely naive even after seeing atrocities, becomes one of the smartest characters in a span of 6 episodes.
You think Sansa is still completely naive as of ASoS and AFFC? Maybe we read two different series here but I think she starts to wisen up big time once Ned dies and all throughout ACoK.
Plus you have to remember that all of the characters are older in the show. A 15-year-old Sansa is going to be more mature than a 13-year-old Sansa.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:27 pm to ladytiger118
Sansa is still a little on the naïveté side where we stand in the books right now. Sure she's grown some but she has not completely transformed yet
This post was edited on 7/9/14 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:48 pm to thatguy1892
quote:
thatguy1892
Don't be "that guy". Step back from the ledge.
1) we have no idea if Lady Stoneheart will be included in the series (infact most think she will), nor strong Belwas. Coldhands is much more unlikely, but what at all has he done in the books? Nothing of import.
2) I have really liked the job they have done with Arya. The changes they made with Arya and Tywinn really made Tywinn a more prominenet character and his interplay with Massie was remarkable. Good stuff. Them changing the way Arya loses herself and killing the tickler at the inn was disappointing but they sort of redeemed that by her killing along the road.
There is not enough screen time to go around. If coldhands has no larger part to play than what he has already done, then it was right to leave him out, same with several of the other "minor" charcters. They just take too long to introduce and get the viewers to emotionally invest in. The main characters need screen time before the odd bastards, fools and Iron Ilanders.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:48 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
Sansa is still a little on the naïveté side where we stand in the books right now. Sure she's grown some but she has not completely transformed yet
Yeah, she still doesn't realize the full extent of how monstrous Littlefinger actually is.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:52 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Yeah, she still doesn't realize the full extent of how monstrous Littlefinger actually is.
Who does?
Posted on 7/9/14 at 3:59 pm to ladytiger118
quote:
You think Sansa is still completely naive as of ASoS and AFFC? Maybe we read two different series here but I think she starts to wisen up big time once Ned dies and all throughout ACoK.
Well, she was very easily manipulated by Littlefinger and Dantos. In fact she believed that Dantos was a drunken knight come to save her.
She's still shaky at the end of AFfC and still needs counsel from Littlefinger so as to not blow her cover.
Then you have the show Sansa, who, in season three tells Tyrion that she will be 15 on her next name day on their wedding night, has hoped on a boat, forgotten all of her traumatic experiences to the point they don't affect except when lying to the lords of the Vale. Which she just suddenly came up with the idea by herself to do.
The audience does not see her grow out of her naïveté to become a player she just suddenly goes from almost being killed multiple times to, "don't worry, I got this." Almost as if she is totally immune to traumatic experiences.
In the books she is affected by the experiences and we see that in the dreams that she has and her nervousness while in the Vale. Remember when she first gets there the only person she really speaks to is Littlefinger and he warns her to stop using her real name. It's not until they begin to head down the mountain for the winter that she warms up to anyone, including the Maester.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 4:32 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Oh god where to start.
You didn't catch anything I said. Those characters mentioned, I said that they still have a chance to include. What I find perplexing is that Coldhands could have been included and used for the mutineer's episodes. Showing through the eyes of Summer as Bran warged into her, Coldhands killing the mutineers. One, saving money on extras and having Locke bullet train to The Wall undetected. Two, not having another, "oh my god will they or won't they" Stark reunion. Three, burning down a set that could have been easily refurbished. Four, if using Coldhands in this way a lot of filming from Craster's would not have been necessary. Five, the audience gets a better understanding what Bran is going into.
quote:
what at all has he done in the books? Nothing of import.
Except kill mutineers and establish that magics are on the other side of The Wall. As well as showing the magic of The Wall. (The scene where Sam takes Bran to meet Coldhands.) Also, we don't know how important Coldhands is because we haven't seen enough of him in the books. But with what he have seen from him, which has been the protection of main characters, most importantly Bran, there is a chance he has more to play.
quote:
I have really liked the job they have done with Arya. The changes they made with Arya and Tywinn really made Tywinn a more prominenet character and his interplay with Massie was remarkable. Good stuff. Them changing the way Arya loses herself and killing the tickler at the inn was disappointing but they sort of redeemed that by her killing along the road.
Yeah, will you point out to me where I said they did anything wrong with Arya? Her changes are fine, other than going to the Eyrie and suddenly being like, "eh, frick it, my aunt is dead." Which also adds to another "will they or won't they" Stark reunion.
The list that I made of each character was about their transitions from what they used to be into an all new self during AFfC and ADwD. It was my pseudo-explanation of the theme of those two books. It's why I started the list by pointing out that the Westeros and Essos are both changing along with the shift in the seasons.
All this being said, I'm still going to watch the show and enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I have to accept David and Dan's interpretation as the best that could be done going forward.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 4:34 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Ashara, overwhelmed with grief, thinks she directly led to her own brother's death and that the man she loved betrayed her and murdered her brother.
This is plausible. Well done.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 6:32 pm to dtmb
If being a kinslayer is considered one of the High Sins in Westoros, how is Stannis not held accountable for the slaying of Renly?
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