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Message
re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:19 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:19 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Speaking of Septa/tons, does anyone else think that the drunken Septon who married Tyrion to Tysha is Cellador, the drunken Septon on the Wall?
I do. It was one of the first things I caught on my second read.
2
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:25 pm to thatguy1892
quote:
I do. It was one of the first things I caught on my second read.
This. I always assumed Tywin punished him for the embarassment.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 4:00 pm to thatguy1892
I'm inclined to believe Cellador is the septon that married a Tyrion and Tysha.
However, one thing bothers me and keeps me from saying it with 100% certainty. Cellador isn't mentioned in the dinner Tyrion has with Mormont and the officers, but it's inconceivable he wouldn't have been there, being the only septon at Castle Black and thus a person of importance.
I guess it's possible that Mormont didn't invite him so as not to insult Tyrion though.
However, one thing bothers me and keeps me from saying it with 100% certainty. Cellador isn't mentioned in the dinner Tyrion has with Mormont and the officers, but it's inconceivable he wouldn't have been there, being the only septon at Castle Black and thus a person of importance.
I guess it's possible that Mormont didn't invite him so as not to insult Tyrion though.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 4:25 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
Posted on 7/8/14 at 4:40 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
However, one thing bothers me and keeps me from saying it with 100% certainty. Cellador isn't mentioned in the dinner Tyrion has with Mormont and the officers, but it's inconceivable he wouldn't have been there, being the only septon at Castle Black and thus a person of importance.
I guess it's possible that Mormont didn't invite him so as not to insult Tyrion though.
I'd say it's highly likely that Mormont knew why each and every one of his men were at the Wall, and I think as soon as Tyrion entered Castle Black, Mormont instructed Cellador to stay out of sight from him, something I bet Cellador agreed with. He wouldn't invite him to a dinner where he's trying to convince Tyrion of the Wall's true worth.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:44 pm to OMLandshark
That's something I never thought about.
Yet another reason why I need to do a reread soon.
Yet another reason why I need to do a reread soon.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:59 pm to ladytiger118
I was thinking of his wet nurse, I was driving
Posted on 7/8/14 at 6:17 pm to Boudin
quote:
I was thinking of his wet nurse, I was driving
Yeah, I think that Wylla was at the Tower of Joy during the showdown, since I think it explicitly mentions that "they" had to pull Ned off of Lyanna, and since only Howland Reed survived the battle, there had to be a second witness. Although I don't think Darkstar is privy to the information, I do think the prominent members of House Dayne know the secret as well, and are willing to protect the identity of the boy that Arthur died for.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 6:36 pm to ladytiger118
I refuse to reread until there is a firm release date for WoW.
I will then set my reread schedule accordingly.
I will then set my reread schedule accordingly.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 6:43 pm to OMLandshark
Crackpot Theory: Ashara Dayne sent a message to Ned when they had all but won the war. The Daynes were the only ones aware of the fact that Lyanna was pregnant and legitimately married to Rhaegar, and that her brother Arthur was guarding the rightful king. She knew that they would find him eventually, they would have an army at their back, and kill her brother, the rest of the Kingsguard, and the baby Lyanna gave birth to. She also may have heard at this time that Robert pardoned Ser Barristan and made him part of his new Kingsguard.
Ashara may have thought Ned was her only hope to spare Arthur and the baby, so she sent a raven to Storm's End addressed directly to Ned about the location of her brother and what exactly was going on, pleading with him to spare her brother, the Kingsguard, and the baby. Ned rode off with the only people he could trust with the information completely, knowing what he would find.
Unfortunately for everyone "The Kingsguard does not flee", and they fought, with only Ned and Howland Reed surviving the battle. Ned knew he had to go to Starfall (with Wylla), give them back Dawn, and explain the situation. Ashara, overwhelmed with grief, thinks she directly led to her own brother's death and that the man she loved betrayed her and murdered her brother. When Lord Dayne (whoever he was) disagreed, she jumped to her own death.
Ashara may have thought Ned was her only hope to spare Arthur and the baby, so she sent a raven to Storm's End addressed directly to Ned about the location of her brother and what exactly was going on, pleading with him to spare her brother, the Kingsguard, and the baby. Ned rode off with the only people he could trust with the information completely, knowing what he would find.
Unfortunately for everyone "The Kingsguard does not flee", and they fought, with only Ned and Howland Reed surviving the battle. Ned knew he had to go to Starfall (with Wylla), give them back Dawn, and explain the situation. Ashara, overwhelmed with grief, thinks she directly led to her own brother's death and that the man she loved betrayed her and murdered her brother. When Lord Dayne (whoever he was) disagreed, she jumped to her own death.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 7:02 pm to OMLandshark
I'm assuming that by the "man she loved" you mean Ned, correct?
Posted on 7/8/14 at 7:04 pm to Analyze That
quote:
I'm assuming that by the "man she loved" you mean Ned, correct?
Yeah, although I'm guessing Brandon could be it as well, but for the sake of my theory, it's Ned.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:30 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
it's clear the Kingsguard are there protecting their rightful king
Aerys was the rightful king. His heir was Rhaegar. Rhaegar's heir was Aegon. Whether Jon Snow was Ned's bastard or Rhaegar's he is still a bastard and not the rightful heir.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:42 pm to chryso
Then why in the seven hells would the Kingsguard be with Lyanna and Jon than with Viserys? Ned himself brings that up:
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”[3]
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”[3]
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:58 pm to chryso
quote:
Aerys was the rightful king. His heir was Rhaegar. Rhaegar's heir was Aegon. Whether Jon Snow was Ned's bastard or Rhaegar's he is still a bastard and not the rightful heir.
Not if Rhaegar married Lyanna. Seriously, these were the quotes of Gerald Hightower after being questioned why he didn't flee with Viserys
"The Kingsguard does not flee."
That entirely implies they are guarding the rightful king, which is not Viserys, and they knew Ned knew it as well. Jon is not a bastard, which is the point of his entire arc.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 9:00 pm
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:58 pm to ladytiger118
Upvote
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:00 pm to chryso
quote:
Rhaegar's he is still a bastard and not the rightful heir.
Might want to go read up on your Targaryen family history. Most notably Aegon the Conqueror.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:27 pm to OMLandshark
That's probably the truth behind it. Just that one little aspect of it gives me a bit of pause. Although I will say that Cellador more than likely don't GAF if he saw Tyrion or not. But that neither here nor there.
Anyway, frick Cellador. Old drunk bastard opposed all of Jon's decisions as LC of the NW
Anyway, frick Cellador. Old drunk bastard opposed all of Jon's decisions as LC of the NW
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:30 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
Am I a bad book reader that I don't even remember Cellador?
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:31 pm to ladytiger118
Hmm, that is very interesting. I hadn't realized that all of this happened after the war was over.
So yall are saying that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married? It seems unlikely that Ned would not know his sister had wed. I am not saying you guys are wrong. I have just never put it together in this manner before. I will have to think on it.
So yall are saying that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married? It seems unlikely that Ned would not know his sister had wed. I am not saying you guys are wrong. I have just never put it together in this manner before. I will have to think on it.
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