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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:36 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:36 pm to BluegrassBelle
If anything I believe that he knew that Ned was loved and in the event that something happened to him a war would be started to avenge him. Ned actually had some leverage, there was an army willing to die for him.
Stannis was no threat to the Lannisters. Bob wasn't as dumb as people make him out to be by any means he knew that the Lannisters were after him I agree with that, but even if Stannis stayed I don't think Robert's decision would've changed at all.
and as we're seeing now yes Ned is dead but the war the Lannisters started by killing him is going to eventually lead to their demise. They had it good until Cersei killed Bob. That is the source of all their problems, Cersei's infidelity and the invincible opinion she held for her family.
Stannis was no threat to the Lannisters. Bob wasn't as dumb as people make him out to be by any means he knew that the Lannisters were after him I agree with that, but even if Stannis stayed I don't think Robert's decision would've changed at all.
and as we're seeing now yes Ned is dead but the war the Lannisters started by killing him is going to eventually lead to their demise. They had it good until Cersei killed Bob. That is the source of all their problems, Cersei's infidelity and the invincible opinion she held for her family.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 9:39 pm
1
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:40 pm to CottonWasKing
I think the Lannister's demise started with the Battle of Blackwater Bay.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:58 pm to NIH
quote:
I think the Lannister's demise started with the Battle of Blackwater Bay.
Which wouldn't have occurred if they did not take Ned Stark's head. The source of their problems stemmed from killing Ned Stark, without his death Renly would've never revolted and Stannis would've never had the men to assault Kings Landing.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:45 pm to CottonWasKing
I would go even further back to say the Lannister's demise began in an old tower in Winterfell. Jaime doesn't push Bran out that window, setting off a series of chain events, then a lot of shite never happens.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:55 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I would go even further back to say the Lannister's demise began in an old tower in Winterfell. Jaime doesn't push Bran out that window, setting off a series of chain events, then a lot of shite never happens.
Ehhh maybe... Ned would've still figured out that Joffrey was born of incest and he still would've called Cersei out on it. I think they were going to war regardless though Brans fall and Tyrion's capture at Catelyn's hand certainly expedited the confrontation.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:59 pm to CottonWasKing
At the very least is drew attention to them. Attention that would have at the very least kept Ned from being captured and then eventually beheaded.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 11:17 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
At the very least is drew attention to them. Attention that would have at the very least kept Ned from being captured and then eventually beheaded.
It would've given him more time thats for sure... now what he would've done with that time is anyone's guess but knowing Ned he wouldn't have done anything and still ended up in his same situation. The only thing that could've saved him in Kings Landing once he figured out the truth to Robert's children is either flee like Stannis or take Renly's advice and arrest the children first thing.
Yet as we know he was too honorable for either of those things.
Posted on 8/31/12 at 3:48 am to CottonWasKing
Jon Arryn's death is what really started everyone's demise
Posted on 8/31/12 at 8:09 am to putt23
This entire thing is Lyanna's fault. If she doesn't run away and fornicate with Prince Rhaegar in the Tower of Joy this entire set of events would not hav occured.
And Rheagar would have made a great king.
And Rheagar would have made a great king.
Posted on 8/31/12 at 8:50 am to jrodLSUke
Well yea she was the catalyst for Roberts rebellion however the lannister's would've gotten away clean if not for joffrey's decision to make Ned a head shorter
This post was edited on 8/31/12 at 8:52 am
Posted on 8/31/12 at 9:40 am to CottonWasKing
I was just seeing how far back in ASOIAF history we could take that debate. 
Ned's execution was definitely the beginning of the end of House Lannister.
Tywin made a pretty big mistake by executing Elia and her babes. But Dorne couldn't really do anything about it.
Until now....
Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the Sand Snakes of war!
Ned's execution was definitely the beginning of the end of House Lannister.
Tywin made a pretty big mistake by executing Elia and her babes. But Dorne couldn't really do anything about it.
Until now....
Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the Sand Snakes of war!
Posted on 8/31/12 at 9:47 am to jrodLSUke
At the time that wasn't a mistake on Tywins part. He bought favor with the new king sealed himself as a power in the new westeros. If things would've kept going the same as with bob then dorne like you said couldn't have done a thing about it without risking total anihihalition
Posted on 8/31/12 at 9:51 am to jrodLSUke
Crazy to think that Littlefinger almost single-handedly started the war by lying about the dagger and convincing Lysa to murder Jon Arryn
Posted on 8/31/12 at 9:55 am to Carson123987
quote:
Crazy to think that Littlefinger almost single-handedly started the war by lying about the dagger and convincing Lysa to murder Jon Arryn
this blew my mind in SoS when I read it. He kicked everything off. It might have happened anyway with J+C=J,M,T but he was the one who got it going.
Posted on 8/31/12 at 10:07 am to ornagestorm
Littlefinger is such a mystery to me. There must be something more to his story to explain his motivations.
It must be more than just ambition. He was already Master of Coin and could have been Hand. I think he is too smart to sit on the Iron Throne; that's just a good way to get killed.
Maybe he just wants to play the Game of Thrones?
His actions seem to be aligned with Varys. Many of his moves seem to be to create chaos around KL.
It must be more than just ambition. He was already Master of Coin and could have been Hand. I think he is too smart to sit on the Iron Throne; that's just a good way to get killed.
Maybe he just wants to play the Game of Thrones?
His actions seem to be aligned with Varys. Many of his moves seem to be to create chaos around KL.
Posted on 8/31/12 at 10:40 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Littlefinger is such a mystery to me.
Most of my thoughts are going to him now. I just don't understand him. He was Master of Coin, could have been Hand, granted Harrenhal all by Lannister who he betray. Now he has the Vale, is trying to get the North via Winterfell/Sansa. I also don't see his end game as King of Westeros. But what does he want? He just keeps on trading titles and land for other titles and lands.
Posted on 8/31/12 at 11:10 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Littlefinger is such a mystery to me. There must be something more to his story to explain his motivations.
It must be more than just ambition. He was already Master of Coin and could have been Hand. I think he is too smart to sit on the Iron Throne; that's just a good way to get killed.
Maybe he just wants to play the Game of Thrones?
His actions seem to be aligned with Varys. Many of his moves seem to be to create chaos around KL.
Great post. This is exactly why Littlefinger is my favorite character. What you said about him not being stupid enough to sit the IT is exactly right; he knows that that will end very badly. It's almost like he wants to rule from the shadows, setting up people here and there that he can rule through.
He may just be an agent of chaos. His line in SOS when he says that sometimes you have to make moves that don't make very much sense to confuse your enemies.....brilliant. He is the man
Posted on 8/31/12 at 11:30 am to Carson123987
Littlefinger's talk with Sansa in that chapter of ASOS is one of my favorite quotes in the series:
10% Littlefinger speaking to Sansa
90% GRRM speaking to the reader
quote:
"Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game."
10% Littlefinger speaking to Sansa
90% GRRM speaking to the reader
Posted on 8/31/12 at 12:16 pm to jrodLSUke
That makes you wonder how many move grrm has made for no purpose other than to confuse us
Posted on 8/31/12 at 12:24 pm to CottonWasKing
Those type of comments make me think Jon's mother was Wylla. I wouldn't put it past GRRM to put those prophecies and all the signs just to frick with us.
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