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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:22 pm to polizei11
Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:22 pm to polizei11
quote:
picture Melisandre taking over as soon as the Brothers stab Jon and her preparing for or waiting for her fires to tell her when to perform the ritual to resurrect him.
Remember that when Thoros first gave Lord Beric the fiery kiss he wasn't expecting him to rise. It was just the proper death rite of his religion. Maybe Mel has seen Beric or Uncat in the flames but its more likely she has no clue Thoros is running around raising the dead. She;ll be as shocked as anyone is my guess.
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Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:28 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
I'll be so pissed, frick Theon. At least with Jamie most of the despicable shite he does is defensible in some way. NOBODY wanted Theon to sack Winterfell but he did it anyway for some attempt at glory. He's the most selfish person in the books, if there is anybody who deserves what happened to him it's Theon. Just kill the mother fricker GRRM, no need for redemption
I completely, unequivocally disagree. Theon is the most pitiable character in the series. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place at all times after book 1. Either betray your blood or betray your adoptive family. Either admit to being a wolf (read: pussy) or regain your glory as a kraken. His entire life has been spent in the service of others, either playing second fiddle to Robb or trying to prove himself to his father.
Then the boys escape. Then Winterfell is sacked. Then he's captured and tortured. Then he saves Jeyne, ol' Plain Jeyne, and he gets captured for that, too. His attempts to please his father have led him down a road that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy and his last attempt to regain his honor, to regain his self-respect and, indeed, his own identity, end in despair.
Theon is not selfish. He is cowardly in his own way. He is weak in his own way. But he does not set out to attain personal glory for his own sake. He is not Euron. He's not even Victarion. He's the forsaken son of a tyrant who's been replaced by his sister.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:37 pm to LoveThatMoney
Theon should have merely tried to capture Bran and Rickon while they slept, and he would have gone down as a war hero in the Iron Islands, and basically have won the War for the North.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:40 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Theon should have merely tried to capture Bran and Rickon while they slept, and he would have gone down as a war hero in the Iron Islands, and basically have won the War for the North.
Never said he was the brightest candle on the menorah.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 4:54 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Never said he was the brightest candle on the menorah
That would make him Theon GreyBERG not Greyjoy, try to keep up
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:25 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Theon is not selfish.
-He got everyone in Winterfell and his whole crew killed because he was too selfish to give up the castle.
-Immediately switches sides upon arriving at Pyke. At least in the show they portrayed him as having some kind of struggle with this. I mean shite, he was Robb's right hand man and all of a sudden just switches with no internal struggle. I read that and thought, wtf?
-Betrays the Ironmen in Moat Cailin
-Kills the Miller's boys just so he wouldn't be laughed at.
all in all a piece of shite which is why it was so easy for him to take on the persona of Reek. Do you think Robb Stark, Jon, or Jamie would let themselves stoop that low before death?
This post was edited on 3/25/13 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:27 pm to OMLandshark
The way Jamie treated Pia and Lord Blackwood reminded me of Ned.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:28 pm to NIH
quote:
Immediately switches sides upon arriving at Pyke.
Not the way I read it. And again, I don't think any of this is selfish except for, I guess, attempting to win the affection of his father, if that can be considered selfish.
This post was edited on 3/25/13 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:33 pm to NIH
quote:
so easy for him to take on the persona of Reek.
Lolwut!?
Dude was tortured for months. He didn't just easily take on the persona of Reek. The book delves into his struggle with his identity, constantly having to remind himself he mustn't think of himself as Theon. Only Reek, Reek it rhymes with weak.
quote:
Do you think Robb Stark, Jon, or Jamie would let themselves stoop that low before death?
If being flayed alive and beaten to a pulp such that it hurts to eat and ages you 40 years? fricking. Yes.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:35 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
I don't think any of this is selfish except for,
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:35 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Dude was tortured for months.
The guys I mentioned would have died before submitting, IMO. Theon is and always has been mentally weak.
This post was edited on 3/25/13 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:44 pm to NIH
quote:
The guys I mentioned would have died before submitting, IMO. Theon is and always has been mentally weak.
Lol. OK. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the subject. I will end with this:
(A) I don't think The on submitted to torture. He was forced by about five guys while fighting with everything he had. Kinda like how Jaime fought against having his hand... Removed.
(B) while captured and treated relatively well by the Starks, how many escape attempts did Jaime make? Oh right. One. Then he was released by dumbfrick Catelyn who is the worst character in the book behind Cersei. How many attempts did psychologically and physically tortured Theon make? One. Just like your badass Jaime.
If you think Theon is selfish, or irredeemable, fair enough, but don't give me this "Jaime would've fought harder and died instead." No he wouldn't have. He'd have suffered the same damn fate. The only person in Westeros who could've overcomethe guards in a ssituation like that would be the Mountain. Maybe.
ETA: And Robb and Jon are far weaker than Jaime, mentally and physically.
This post was edited on 3/25/13 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:51 pm to NIH
He wasn't allowed to die. You are discounting how horrible his torturing was. Any person real or fictional would break down under what he went through. I agree that Theon should be pitied, not hated.
Also, he didn't kill the two boys to keep people from laughing at him. He killed the two boys to maintain the illusion of power. He shouldn't have let Bran and Rickon escape, but at the point he was at what he did was the only strategically intelligent thing that he could do.
Also, he didn't kill the two boys to keep people from laughing at him. He killed the two boys to maintain the illusion of power. He shouldn't have let Bran and Rickon escape, but at the point he was at what he did was the only strategically intelligent thing that he could do.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 5:53 pm to NIH
And was this:
Really all that necessary? Come on, buddy. Come on.
Really all that necessary? Come on, buddy. Come on.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:02 pm to NIH
Every man can break and every man WILL break under that duress.
Even Ned broke and he faced much much less trauma.
Even Ned broke and he faced much much less trauma.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:16 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
He is stuck between a rock and a hard place at all times
That he makes for himself
quote:
Either betray your blood or betray your adoptive family.
He put himself in the situation to go back to his father. He planned on betraying Robbs trust the whole time. No, he didn't want to attack Robb but he wasn't following his plan either, and he sure flipped quick. From "oh no let's not attack the Starks" to "Oh let's try and take fricking Winterfell even though it's a bazillion miles from the sea"
quote:
His entire life has been spent in the service of others, either playing second fiddle to Robb or trying to prove himself to his father.
Can't really argue that, but plenty of younger or lesser siblings have the same fate and don't do what he did.
quote:
Then the boys escape.
From him because he took their home
quote:
Then Winterfell is sacked.
Because of him
quote:
His attempts to please his father have led him down a road that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy and his last attempt to regain his honor, to regain his self-respect and, indeed, his own identity, end in despair.
His selfish attempts to gain himself glory and out shine his sister. Trying to please a father who despises him and who he hasn't seen in years by betraying the people who raised you, I don't by his shite about how he always felt like a captive. Oh poor pitiful Theon was never loved by Ned Stark. I know we only got to know Ned for one book but he doesn't really seem like the affectionate type to me, regardless of who you are.
Sure he's had some hardships in life, obviously being forced to live with another family is tough, but the Starks were pretty damn good to him IMO.
He decided that wasn't enough, he decided to betray them by taking their home with a plan that had more holes in it than a cast net. He's the idiot that thought he could hold Winterfell with a handful of sailors.
frick Theon/Reek/deplorable selfish terrible person.
I hope he burns, I hope it happens
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:22 pm to Tiger1242
You're absolutely right about everything you said. There is no excuse for the things Theon did, but he has paid for his sins ten fold. Is it to much to ask that he get the chance to die as a man for an honorable cause? After everything he's been through does he not deserve that much at the least?
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:23 pm to CottonWasKing
Sure, why not. I just don't want some kind of story of redemption, I can't think of anything he could do that would redeem him in my eyes, maybe GRRM will find a way to do it but I doubt it
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:27 pm to Tiger1242
All of that is fine and dandy, he's still meant to be a redemption character. Book it. He will save Bran and Rickon or something like that.
And again, I disagree with your characterization of him. But we are at an impasse and that's fine.
And again, I disagree with your characterization of him. But we are at an impasse and that's fine.
Posted on 3/25/13 at 6:28 pm to LoveThatMoney
Unfortunately I think you're right and he his bound for "redemption"
Hopefully he at least dies doing it (and isn't brought back)
Hopefully he at least dies doing it (and isn't brought back)
This post was edited on 3/25/13 at 6:29 pm
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