re: Best stand-up comedian of all time

Old School: Pryor, Carlin

Current: Patton Oswalt, Burr, C.K.

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Carlin was the guy who truly changed the game. He also was a master of language.

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To be honest - Carlin and Pryor (in different ways and for different reasons) being active at about the same time, being competitive (in a friendly way) with each other and the success each had are the reason I have them 1a and 1b - there is literally not a single comic working since that don't list both of those as influences, almost certainly in the top 5 and many of them will have those cats as 1 and 2.

Carlin did so much with the language the way he was able to bend, twist, warp, melt the language. Richard was more minimalist - he tended to do very racial-specific comedy, but was able to make it as universal as possible (which is simple in theory, particularly on the superficial level, but extremely complex the way Richard actually did it) - both evolved with the times and both men were excellent with their "visual" presentation of their jokes. Richard, in particular, was able to externalize a lot of trauma and pain into highly thought-provoking, yet funny material.

For the classic, Borscht Belt - when you look at the dozens of greats who came out of that tradition (Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner, Don Rickles, Jackie Mason - all still alive, plus Lenny Bruce, Buddy Hackett, Harvey Korman, Zero Mostel, even George Burns and Jack Benny can be swept up by this term - and the list goes on and on.) - still not sure any of them topped Carlin and Pryor - both of whom were strongly influenced by those guys, but built on it for television/film specials.

One of my favorites

Great post, Ace. I agree with just about all of it, and I'm not gonna die on the hill of Pryor being #2 instead of #1A/B.

While I think Carlin changed how comedians operate, you're right, so did Pryor. There's no playing stadiums or arenas without Pryor's sheer audacity. He also was the guy who really taught comedians how to talk about themselves in their act (Bruce gets credit for this, but a lot was political grandstanding and, well, part of the act... Pryor actually mined deep personal pain). It's hard to think that a confessional comedian like Mike Birbiglia owes a huge debt to Pryor, but he really does.

Pryor might be the first guy you could seriously say stand up is an art form. Not to knock the Botsch Belt guys (and I like a lot of them... Zero Mostel and Don Rickels are amazing), but they are more professional entertainers than "artists". Pryor is probably the first guy who went beyond entertainment and into art. Honestly, there's not a lot who can.

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Pryor might be the first guy you could seriously say stand up is an art form. Not to knock the Botsch Belt guys (and I like a lot of them... Zero Mostel and Don Rickels are amazing), but they are more professional entertainers than "artists". Pryor is probably the first guy who went beyond entertainment and into art. Honestly, there's not a lot who can.

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I think this is really an area that both my top guys are close again - for many of these guys, and I'll include Jerry Seinfeld in this, too - stand-up was something most of them did - because they liked it, they were good at it and they made a living doing it.

"Stand up comic" - that's who Carlin and Pryor were - not just something they did - I think Carlin was trying to change the world (cliché though that may be) and Pryor was trying to heal himself in a healthy and profitable way - the way each crafted his act - was much more like a work of art. You can see the genius of Richard in those acts where he reacts to the audience and incorporates that - not the heckler busting, but his general interactions - I mean D.L. Hughley built an entire act around the way Richard dealt with hecklers, but Pryor's audience interaction can be considered largely a "throw away" part of his act and was still masterful.

Carlin's tongue twisting, profanity (with a purpose) laden act is similar in effect - in that you realize something larger than the jokes has been created at the end of it.

Another thing that separates Carlin and Pryor in my mind - the profanity. Both were MASTERS of it. Let's take a few other guys mentioned in the thread: Seinfeld and Cosby on the one hand, and Kinison and Murphy on the other - it is difficult to imagine either Cosby or Seinfeld working blue (and it probably wouldn't work) - ditto for Kinison or Murphy trying to play clean (and there is no question that Murphy consciously, honestly and sincerely built his act around being a young Richard Pryor) - both Carlin and Pryor were outstanding on either side of the line.

When it's all said and done, decades from now I think Carlin will be renowned as a great philosopher.

Chapelle is the heir to Pryor's throne.

They are both just funnier than most. And talk about race where both sides can laugh. That's not easy to do. A nod to Chapelle there because it is tough to not piss SOMEBODY off. Pryor did not have to deal with that to today's degree.

I agree with Louis CK too.

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Ummm, really? You don't think back in the 60s and 70s that Pryor didn't have to put up with tons of racist bullshite thrown at him? He dealt with hatred towards him to an even worse degree than Chapelle did.

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Absolutely!!

But apples and oranges. Pryor had to deal with overt racism. Chapelle has to deal with the land mines of SJW.

The outrage against Pryor was real. fricked up but real.

I'm 27, so I grew up with Chappelle and he is amazing, but he's not my favorite.

Not saying he is the GOAT by any means but my favorite is Anthony Jeselnik.