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Youth Football - Defending Against Pro-Set (Split Backs)
Posted on 10/27/15 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 10/27/15 at 1:54 pm
MSB, looking for suggestions. I know a few of you are doing some youth coaching, so hopefully I can get some decent responses.
I am coaching 7th-8th grade ball (13-15 year olds). Our team is a bit undersized, and outmatched athletically against this team we face in a few days. Last time we played them, they beat us 28-0. They didn't move the ball, but had 4 big plays where they just busted touchdowns on us. The kids were intimidated before the game because they apparently got beat bad last year.
Now we are a better team, and have some confidence coming off a big win last week. We run a 3-5 as our base set, typically pushing our OLBs (Whip and Spur) up to the LOS, equating to a 5-3. We also shift into a 4-4 stack. This team CANNOT pass the ball. They are horrible at it. But they are so disciplined in their off-tackle power plays it is ridiculous. Also their RBs are very good at hitting the hole and making cutbacks.
Our safety wasn't fast enough to run anyone down at the point of attack, or from behind, so I am thinking of shifting linebackers in both fronts to the side and rolling my safety down as an extra LB.
Our 3-5/5-3 set adjustments:
- Move left and right inside backers over the C-gaps, with Spur/Whip 1-2 yds outside the last man on the LOS.
- Move MLB over OG
- Roll FS down as LB and play him over other OG
This would, in theory, Plug the gaps that they like to hit and add an extra man to plug the occasional dive/belly play. My FS does me no good if he is 10 yds from the ball vs this team.
Our 4-4 set adjustments:
- Roll OLBs onto LOS, 1-2 yds outside last man on LOS
- Shift ILBs out to C-gaps
- Roll FS up to MLB
Other adjustments I have given thought to:
- Having Whip/Spur bear crawl the line to prevent a TE or OT getting a lead block on a LB.
- Blitzing my Whip/Spur almost every play, running them in at bootleg depth if the handoff is away from them.
- Rolling LBs up to 2 & 1/2 to 3 yds., and allowing less time for blocking to develop, theoretically clogging gaps.
These adjustments to both sets would allow us to keep our entire blitz package. I would, however, like your feedback on the issue!
I am coaching 7th-8th grade ball (13-15 year olds). Our team is a bit undersized, and outmatched athletically against this team we face in a few days. Last time we played them, they beat us 28-0. They didn't move the ball, but had 4 big plays where they just busted touchdowns on us. The kids were intimidated before the game because they apparently got beat bad last year.
Now we are a better team, and have some confidence coming off a big win last week. We run a 3-5 as our base set, typically pushing our OLBs (Whip and Spur) up to the LOS, equating to a 5-3. We also shift into a 4-4 stack. This team CANNOT pass the ball. They are horrible at it. But they are so disciplined in their off-tackle power plays it is ridiculous. Also their RBs are very good at hitting the hole and making cutbacks.
Our safety wasn't fast enough to run anyone down at the point of attack, or from behind, so I am thinking of shifting linebackers in both fronts to the side and rolling my safety down as an extra LB.
Our 3-5/5-3 set adjustments:
- Move left and right inside backers over the C-gaps, with Spur/Whip 1-2 yds outside the last man on the LOS.
- Move MLB over OG
- Roll FS down as LB and play him over other OG
This would, in theory, Plug the gaps that they like to hit and add an extra man to plug the occasional dive/belly play. My FS does me no good if he is 10 yds from the ball vs this team.
Our 4-4 set adjustments:
- Roll OLBs onto LOS, 1-2 yds outside last man on LOS
- Shift ILBs out to C-gaps
- Roll FS up to MLB
Other adjustments I have given thought to:
- Having Whip/Spur bear crawl the line to prevent a TE or OT getting a lead block on a LB.
- Blitzing my Whip/Spur almost every play, running them in at bootleg depth if the handoff is away from them.
- Rolling LBs up to 2 & 1/2 to 3 yds., and allowing less time for blocking to develop, theoretically clogging gaps.
These adjustments to both sets would allow us to keep our entire blitz package. I would, however, like your feedback on the issue!
9
Posted on 10/27/15 at 1:58 pm to DByrd2
Put your 2 best players at OLB at the LOS and have them attack the edge. Backside pursue on plays going to the opposite side.
Put your next 2 best players at CB and have them attack and contain. Backside pursue on plays going to the opposite side.
Play 2 LBs and have them also attack the LOS, but inside of your DEs.
Pay 2 deep safeties (10-12 yards deep) to be your last line of defense to protect against a RB who gets away from the LOS carnage.
Put your next 2 best players at CB and have them attack and contain. Backside pursue on plays going to the opposite side.
Play 2 LBs and have them also attack the LOS, but inside of your DEs.
Pay 2 deep safeties (10-12 yards deep) to be your last line of defense to protect against a RB who gets away from the LOS carnage.
This post was edited on 10/27/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 10/27/15 at 1:59 pm to DByrd2
"Spider Y 2 Banana"
Posted on 10/27/15 at 1:59 pm to Dan Bilzerian
Play a Bear or Panther front. Are they running Veer or Option out of it or just throwing?
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:01 pm to sms151t
I would say this. Maintain gaps! Have ends close down on tackles blocking inside of them. (Veer) Also some work on taking on a lead blocker and keeping outside arm free on the sweeps.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:06 pm to DByrd2
Hire Tom Ritter to ref the game.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:09 pm to LPgolfer
If this team he is playing is good enough to win without throwing you may want to run the Bear with a Man Free look.
Problem is, can the kids understand the Bear?
Problem is, can the kids understand the Bear?
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:15 pm to sms151t
Why do you had a kid that cay attack the line of scrimmage playing 12 yards off the line vs 8th graders that can't pass?
Move someone else to safety.
Move someone else to safety.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:16 pm to Dan Bilzerian
quote:
Put your 2 best players at OLB at the LOS and have them attack the edge. Backside pursue on plays going to the opposite side.
That confirms one "other adjustment" that I made.
quote:
Put your next 2 best players at CB and have them attack and contain. Backside pursue on plays going to the opposite side.
Secondary is where we hurt the most. Our second best player snapped both bones in his lower arm during practice last week.
Also, probably only going to have them close down and not pursue through the backfield. For some ungodly reason, this team likes to run double and triple reverses.
quote:
Play 2 LBs and have them also attack the LOS, but inside of your DEs
Are suggesting that we only play the 4-4? If that is the case (2 ILBs and 2 OLBs) then...
quote:
Pay 2 deep safeties (10-12 yards deep) to be your last line of defense to protect against a RB who gets away from the LOS carnage.
...this is not possible. Unless those are separate suggestions.
The adjustments I am leaning to making, as listed above, will essentially turn my 4-4 front into a 6-3, and my 3-5/5-3 front into a 5-4.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:19 pm to DByrd2
I'd stretch my 3 down lineman out farther than they should be, and just dare them to run inside. Also, I'd make it a point to blitz the corner multiple times (apparently they aren't a passing threat), and a CB crashing in while maintaining the edge will make the RB cut upfield, hopefully to a group of tacklers.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:20 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Why do you had a kid that cay attack the line of scrimmage playing 12 yards off the line vs 8th graders that can't pass? Move someone else to safety.
Our team somehow is loaded with lineman types, and is thin in the athletic/ DB department. Also, Most teams we have played this year are trying to sling the rock out of a spread offense.
Someone else asked...
quote:
Problem is, can the kids understand the Bear?
No.
This age group is very loopy, but these kids are very slow to pick up on things. Lost our first two games because of this, then finished the season at a 5-3 record. The other two team in the playoffs on our side were who we played those first two games. Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:20 pm to DByrd2
If you have kids that can cover their bad passing attack one on one, just have them play man and change up how they align. (press and bump, press and bail, give a cushion and then press and bump late, give cushion and stay deep) See what works.
If they are truly bad, just tell them to not get beat deep and make a play on every ball.
Then stack the hell out of the box to the field (if that's where they predominately run their power) with an over bear look.
If they are truly bad, just tell them to not get beat deep and make a play on every ball.
Then stack the hell out of the box to the field (if that's where they predominately run their power) with an over bear look.
This post was edited on 10/27/15 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:23 pm to DByrd2
What offense do they run? Like which formations are they most fond of?
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:28 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
If you have kids that can cover their bad passing attack one on one, just have them play man and change up how they align. (press and bump, press and bail, give a cushion and then press and bump late, give cushion and stay deep) See what works.
Gave thought to that too, and ultimately may end up doing it. We typically play a cover three bail. We have a shite ton of picks this year because I aligned the CBs outside and have them looking directly at the QB each play. Not so smart vs. a virtually non-existent passing attack this week.
My corners can play man fairly well, they are just undersized. That was my only drawback from that plan. Pretty sure I will roll with what you said about changing alignment.
quote:
Then stack the hell out of the box to the field (if that's where they predominately run their power) with an over bear look.
Thought about doing this, but the team we are facing runs the ball well to strong and weak sides. The weak side belly is the compliment to their strong-side power play. They don't even run counters at all, it seems.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:30 pm to rmnldr
quote:
What offense do they run? Like which formations are they most fond of?
They run the old USC split-back pro set with either 2 receivers and a TE, or they go 1 receiver, double tight. They flex into a spread when they run the speed sweep, but they aren't any good at it. They try to pass out of that as well, but their line can't pass block and their QB has to run for his damn life. Even against bad teams.
This post was edited on 10/27/15 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:36 pm to DByrd2
Have you thought about running the 4-2-5?
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:38 pm to DByrd2
Blitz everybody.
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:39 pm to DByrd2
quote:
...this is not possible. Unless those are separate suggestions
Run a 5-2-4.
---------OLB-DT-NG-DT-OLB
----CB-------LB----------LB---------CB
------------S---------------------S
Attack like I suggested.
This post was edited on 10/27/15 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:49 pm to DByrd2
Posted on 10/27/15 at 2:50 pm to Dan Bilzerian
Got ya now. I am not sure I have 2 players capable of playing safety effectively, or else I may have taken your advice. I prefer to play 2 safeties usually. Just not loaded with secondary players talent enough to run support without losing my better players at the point of attack.
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