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Started By
Message
Sabermetrics folks--explain to me why BA is useless
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:44 am
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:44 am
why is BA so discounted? I understand that luck can inflate a BA over a 1 year span, but if a guy can hit .280+ every year with a .320 obp and 15 bombs, why do people prefer a .200 hitter with 25 bombs and a .350 obp?
I understand he gets on base more, but isn't baseball about role players? I'd rather have player A up to bat with risp and down 1 in the 9th with two outs. What good does a frickin walk do? Doesn't a good hitter looking at hittable pitches bother anyone else because he is just trying to walk because those are the players who get paid?
I understand he gets on base more, but isn't baseball about role players? I'd rather have player A up to bat with risp and down 1 in the 9th with two outs. What good does a frickin walk do? Doesn't a good hitter looking at hittable pitches bother anyone else because he is just trying to walk because those are the players who get paid?
20
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:47 am to Moustache
quote:No one prefers that....
why do people prefer a .200 hitter
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:49 am to Moustache
quote:
but if a guy can hit .280+ every year with a .320 obp and 15 bombs, why do people prefer a .200 hitter with 25 bombs and a .350 obp?
I think your example is a little too extreme
.270 batter with 20 homers and OBP of .325
.250 batter with 12 homers and OBP of .375
This is more the argument
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:49 am to Moustache
quote:
.320 obp
quote:The .200 hitter is actually still getting on base more. Now, a hit has more of a chance of scoring a run than a walk, so we cant definitely say that the player with the .350obp is more valuable, but when you throw in the 10 more HRs than likely he is.
.350 obp
The real money stat is OPS
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:51 am to Moustache
quote:
I understand he gets on base more, but isn't baseball about role players? I'd rather have player A up to bat with risp and down 1 in the 9th with two outs. What good does a frickin walk do?
Put the winning run on? ETA: Nevermind I assume you mean two runners on.
I'm pretty sure team OBP is more highly correlated to run scoring than team BA. OBP and SLG make BA useless to me.
Nothing is more overrated than a .300 hitter who doesn't walk or hit for power. Empty batting average isn't that valuable.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 8:54 am
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:54 am to Moustache
I don't think it's useless, but a lot of the old way was that it was the primary measure of a hitter. I think it's another thing to consider alongside OBP, OPS walk rate and K rate.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:55 am to Moustache
quote:
.320 obp
quote:
.350 obp?
He gets on base more.
quote:
15 bombs
quote:
25 bombs
He more than likely has more RBIs as well. So he gets on base more, creating more chances to score, and he hits far more home runs. Why wouldn't you prefer this guy?
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:56 am to tduecen
Someone in the altuve thread stated they'd rather have chris after batting sub 200 than altuve batting .260
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:56 am to Moustache
quote:Give me each of their respective OPS
Someone in the altuve thread stated they'd rather have chris after batting sub 200 than altuve batting .260
ETA: Altuve is batting .350. You smoking crack?
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 8:58 am
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:57 am to Moustache
That was kind of an insane example that didn't make much sense
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:58 am to Moustache
I think it is important but I also think people are overthinking baseball and the Sabermetric people are taking the most important thing out of the game, can you play? Some items can not be measured or recorded, it is just innate.
You can go to any thread discussing greatness and the Sabermetric guys will start posting worthless stats that are manipulated easily. The same in Basketball. Hockey is going to get that way also.
You can go to any thread discussing greatness and the Sabermetric guys will start posting worthless stats that are manipulated easily. The same in Basketball. Hockey is going to get that way also.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 9:00 am
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:58 am to The Seaward
I'd take a .300 hitter on my team any day over a votto trying to draw a walk. A .300 hitter without much power will still have a decent obp. Plus, he'd be a great #2 or #9 hitter to drive in some runs
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:59 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:This...OPS, wRC+ are good measures of a hitter. It tells you a lot about their on base skills and how many bases they can get per hit.
I don't think it's useless, but a lot of the old way was that it was the primary measure of a hitter. I think it's another thing to consider alongside OBP, OPS walk rate and K rate.
I like to know the batted ball statistics, too. Babip is a good one and so are the actual exit velocities. Contact rates for pitchers are also good measures of their effectiveness over their actual ERA.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:59 am to Moustache
A guy getting on 35% of the time as opposed to 32% and hitting 10 more HR is creating more runs for his team. Pretty simple
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:59 am to Moustache
quote:
A .300 hitter without much power will still have a decent obp. Plus, he'd be a great #2 or #9 hitter to drive in some runs
Have to factor in speed as well. If the .300 hitter can't run and doesn't have pop, he'll just clog up the bases with his singles.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 9:07 am
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:59 am to Moustache
quote:Who is he going to drive in though? The guy with the .380 OBP.
Plus, he'd be a great #2 or #9 hitter to drive in some runs
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:00 am to JJ27
What good is it to walk, k, or hr? He doesn't move runners over to scoring position, he won't drive in a run most of the time when you need him to (he will most likely walk or k).
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:01 am to Moustache
Between OBP, SLG and K rate I have all I need without looking at BA. Can you give me a scenario where that's not the case?
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:02 am to Moustache
The main reason is because it ignores walks.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:02 am to The Sad Banana
Walk to K ratio has to be a factor as well. I want a guy that is getting on any way possible, plus isn't striking out much. He knows when he gets 2 strikes how to protect the plate and work the count by fouling off pitches. Sometimes that turns out to be a walk. Sometimes that turns into a groundout to 3rd. Either way, he's giving his team a better shot than flailing away trying to hit it 500 feet and hitting nothing but air.
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