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PER and Kobe Bryant
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:07 pm
I was just looking at Hollinger's top 50 PER seasons of all time, and was a bit surprised that Kobe didn't have a single season on the list. I understand he is in the top 20 in career PER, but never had a single season that was good enough to crack the top 50. Even Tracy Mcgrady, who admittedly was a great player yet never considered to be on Kobe's level, has a 30+ PER season, which has only been accomplished 17 times.
Many others on the list are some of the greatest players of all time so Kobe's absence is striking considering his stature historically. I know the stat has some formulaic flaws with defense, minutes played etc., but why do you think Kobe couldn't manage at least one all-time great PER season?
Many others on the list are some of the greatest players of all time so Kobe's absence is striking considering his stature historically. I know the stat has some formulaic flaws with defense, minutes played etc., but why do you think Kobe couldn't manage at least one all-time great PER season?
This post was edited on 3/5/14 at 6:08 pm
15
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:08 pm to stevo1905
While Kobe never had a top PER season he is #1 in GOAT.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:09 pm to stevo1905
It's because while Kobe is/was good, he is also very overrated
This post was edited on 3/5/14 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:12 pm to zzemme
quote:
It's because while Kobe is/was good, he is also very overrated
I don't think so. Probably doesn't deserve to be in GOAT discussions, but he deserved all the hype he's gotten through the years.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:18 pm to stevo1905
At one point McGrady was considered to be on Kobe's level.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:19 pm to stevo1905
Why is this shocking? He's not an extraordinarily efficient player.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:23 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:Yeah I should have clarified that. I remember questioning who I thought was better back then. I meant he's not looked upon historically as being on Kobe's level.
At one point McGrady was considered to be on Kobe's level.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:24 pm to Goldrush25
Exactly
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:24 pm to stevo1905
Because of shooting percentage. Kobe has historically taken a ton of ridiculously difficult shots.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:26 pm to Goldrush25
Does it not surprise you in the slightest that Dwyane Wade and Tracy McGrady were included but not Kobe Bryant?
This post was edited on 3/5/14 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:31 pm to stevo1905
quote:
Yeah I should have clarified that. I remember questioning who I thought was better back then. I meant he's not looked upon historically as being on Kobe's level.
That is more because Kobe has the 5 rings and T-Mac won like one playoff series his entire career.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:33 pm to RTR America
quote:
T-Mac won like one playoff series his entire career
Did you watch last year?
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:36 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Did you watch last year?
Damn it 
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:54 pm to stevo1905
Because PER is a Monday Morning Quarterback stat. "Efficiency" doesn't determine greatness. It determines efficiency. Overcoming odds with great feats of great difficulty determine greatness and Kobe's career epitomizes that. From his burst on the scene being the first to openly challenge Jordan's shadow, to his fall from grace, his years as the NBA's biggest villian to rising from the ashes to be champion again...all the while demanding to be the alpha....never running from a challenge.
His insane degree of difficulty with his shots is a snap shot of his career. Efficient, maybe not...but greater than seeking the easy route.
His insane degree of difficulty with his shots is a snap shot of his career. Efficient, maybe not...but greater than seeking the easy route.
This post was edited on 3/5/14 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 3/5/14 at 6:57 pm to theunknownknight
Meh when applied to the all-time greats their PER usually proves how good they were.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 7:02 pm to stevo1905
Simple answer is eFG%, its the most important factor in PER and Kobe is a high volume scorer but not a particularly efficient one.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 7:06 pm to theunknownknight
quote:is never running from a challenge any different than trying to run run from a challenge?
never running from a challenge.
quote:so, make the game tougher on yourself and be less efficient is better than being good enough to take more high percentage shots and being more efficient?
His insane degree of difficulty with his shots is a snap shot of his career. Efficient, maybe not...but greater than seeking the easy route.
Posted on 3/5/14 at 7:07 pm to dgtiger3
Probably worth another thread in its own but have any of you ever played around with the Play Index on Basketball-Reference.com? It's amazing the things you can do on there.
Here is a list of the Top 50 Career PER ratings for players that have played more than 1000 minutes in the NBA.
Kobe sits at 21st.
Anthony Davis is currently sitting at #16
Career PER
Here is a list of the Top 50 Career PER ratings for players that have played more than 1000 minutes in the NBA.
Kobe sits at 21st.
Anthony Davis is currently sitting at #16
Career PER
Posted on 3/5/14 at 7:10 pm to theunknownknight
Do you not believe the stat has a high correlation with historical greatness? It's measured as efficiency in comparison to your peers, similarly to WAR in baseball. I'm not saying it's the standard by which we should measure every aspect of basketball, but it is very telling that Kobe's play would not be considered "efficient" by a highly inclusive statistic.
The stats show that Kobe (while certainly a more willing, able passer and defender) is a more decorated Carmelo Anthony when viewed objectively, at least on the offensive end.
The stats show that Kobe (while certainly a more willing, able passer and defender) is a more decorated Carmelo Anthony when viewed objectively, at least on the offensive end.
This post was edited on 3/5/14 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 3/5/14 at 7:14 pm to stevo1905
Meh it has Magic at 15 way behind Chris Paul. I don't need PER to know that Magic >>> Paul.
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