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re: McCaffrey should win Heisman, if justice is applied.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 5:39 pm to ReauxlTide222
Posted on 11/30/15 at 5:39 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
What RBs aren't system backs? Does the SEC have any? I'm gonna guess that's a no
It's absolutely a very system position, particularly in NFL style, non-spread offenses. Behind QB's, they put up more stats than any other players. Yet they are incredibly interchangeable. See how devalued they are in the draft/FA market in the NFL.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 5:57 pm to TheSexecutioner
Yes, they are devalued. I don't know what that has to do with the Heisman...unless you're arguing that QBs should always win it. College QBs are more devalued than RBs now.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 6:01 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
No one that is in the conversation has had more carries than him this year,
I'm guessing if LSU had played McNeese, Fournette would have easily be first in yds in the SEC. Probably with a better YPC.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 7:28 pm to Knight of Old
quote:This skews the stats and makes it somewhat deceiving.
KO Return Yds through 12 games:
922, 29.7 Yds/rertun, #7 in nation
In particular, McAffrey's had 31 KO returns this seasons. There are 45 TEAMS that have 31 or fewer KO returns on the season--across FBS, 35 is the average for a TEAM. For comparison purposes, Ohio State has only 14 returns the entire season.
What makes the KO returns deceiving is how easy it is to accumulate yardage. The average KO return is ~21.4 yards. Therefore, 31 average KO returns would add up to 660+ yards. with Missouri has the worst KO return average by a a yard, and they still average > 15 yards per return (~ 470 yards for 31 returns).
There is no doubt he's had a great season and his versatility is a definite positive; however, when you put his return yards into context, his stats become less Heisman worthy.
This post was edited on 11/30/15 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 11/30/15 at 7:44 pm to buckeye_vol
exactly, most of the time you get 15 or 20 yards before meeting an opposing player
I'm not bashing him in particular, just yards from scrimmage are different (he has a bunch of those too).
I'm not bashing him in particular, just yards from scrimmage are different (he has a bunch of those too).
Posted on 11/30/15 at 8:09 pm to Knight of Old
He returns kicks!!!
That makes him awesome!!!
That makes him awesome!!!
Posted on 11/30/15 at 8:20 pm to MrFreakinMiyagi
Fournette is the BEST player, but McCaffrey has ACCOMPLISHED the most. I think you have to give it to the latter.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 8:25 pm to TigersforEver
quote:Besides all purpose yards, which are extremely deceptive and WAY overstated, due to KO return yardage, which metric indicates he's more accomplished than the other stud RBs like Cook, Henry, Fournette, and Elliot?
but McCaffrey has ACCOMPLISHED the most
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:00 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Here's some context:
however, when you put his return yards into context
He returned Kick-offs - a lot of them.
He ran for yards - a lot of them.
He caught passes - a lot of them.
He even threw a touchdown pass.
The context is not the number of kick-offs he returns relative to how many kick-off returns other teams have. (by the way, the greater amount of KOs might indicate a weaker defense which would, in turn, raise the value of an individual offensive performer who can 'do it all').
The context is that he returns kick-offs, period. And this, in addition to all he does, actually proves that he can do things the running backs at the top of the list simply are not doing.
Also, to imply that all-purpose yards are somehow meaningless is tantamount to saying: running, receiving, or kicking yardage - pick one because the others don't matter.
For regular season performance, McCaffrey has been extremely impressive and should be awarded the Heisman based on his multi-varied accomplishments as a player.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:20 pm to Knight of Old
Darn. Hate I missed this thread. Henry is 1/3 to win the trophy. It's his, and he is very, very deserving. Roll damn Tide, Derrick!
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:21 pm to Knight of Old
quote:Uhhhh that's exactly what context is.
The context is not the number of kick-offs he returns relative to how many kick-off returns other teams have
quote:Yes. And I said it's a "definite positive."
The context is that he returns kick-offs, period
quote:But every one of those backs is capable of being a better than average KO returner. Fournette was pretty good at it last year (26 per return).
actually proves that he can do things the running backs at the top of the list simply are not doing.
Clearly Nick Saban, Jimbo Fisher, Urban Meyer, Les Miles, and many other coaches value returns less than offensive plays for their running backs.
quote:Nobody is saying they're meaningless; I'm saying that a return yard < offensive yard. That's pretty obvious.
Also, to imply that all-purpose yards are somehow meaningless
quote:Nice strawman. They all matter, but some yards are far harder to obtain and thus more valuable than others. That doesn't mean the other yardage is useless.
is tantamount to saying: running, receiving, or kicking yardage - pick one because the others don't matter.
Put it this way: when a returner who catches the ball in the end zone can gain 25 yards by just kneeling, that yardage is clearly a lot less exclusive.
quote:Agreed.
For regular season performance, McCaffrey has been extremely impressive
quote:And what are those accomplishments? Is your entire argument based on all purpose yards and the # of unique touchdowns? It has to be because he lags behind the others in everything else.
and should be awarded the Heisman based on his multi-varied accomplishments as a player.
If you look at his stats honestly, they don't support him being the winner. They support him being in the small group of contenders though, and that's mighty impressive.
This post was edited on 11/30/15 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:30 pm to buckeye_vol
Qualifying for kick off return yards would be a valid point if it was only brought up in the context of him having more yards than he other Heisman candidates for THIS season.
But McCaffrey has more All Purpose yards than any major conference player in the last 25 years. That includes shite tons of players that returned kicks.
Plus, being able to be an elite kick returner and still an All American All Purpose back only adds to his case.
But McCaffrey has more All Purpose yards than any major conference player in the last 25 years. That includes shite tons of players that returned kicks.
Plus, being able to be an elite kick returner and still an All American All Purpose back only adds to his case.
This post was edited on 11/30/15 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:38 pm to Volmanac
quote:And Darren Sproles has the record for a season in the NFL whole Brian Westbrook had the career record.
But McCaffrey has more All Purpose yards than any major conference player in the last 25 years. That includes shite tons of players that returned kicks.
Although they are/were valuable players, why aren't they considered among the very best? Why wasn't Sproles awarded the MVP in his record breaking season? He didn't even make the Pro Bowl.
McAffery had a great season. It's not necessary to overrate it though.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:38 pm to Knight of Old
quote:
to imply that all-purpose yards are somehow meaningless
Is retarded. I imagine if the roles were reversed, and Henry had receiving and return yards the red elephants would be all over that.
McCaffrey has over 2,000 yards from scrimmage, not even counting returns.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 10:44 pm to buckeye_vol
Did Darren Sproles set a 25 year mark? Did Darren Sproles have a 2,000 yard season from scrimmage? Did Darren Sproles score 4 different ways?
Posted on 11/30/15 at 11:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
McCaffrey has had a great year. His rushing numbers lack a little bit as do his TD numbers, especially considering the defensive rankings he's played against. He's made up for that with some receiving yards. He'll probably end up a solid 2nd place. That's nothing to sneeze at.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 11:12 pm to Volmanac
quote:Ummm he set an NFL record. So however long they've been tracking it.
Did Darren Sproles set a 25 year mark?
quote:No. Just over 1300 yards. Of course, Sproles averaged an entire yard more per touch.
Did Darren Sproles have a 2,000 yard season from scrimmage?
quote:I don't know but this is an even more nonsensical statistic.
Did Darren Sproles score 4 different ways?
It's like those people that think Kobe was better than Shaq when they played together because he scored in more unique ways. Yet, Shaq scored more and was WAY more efficient.
In other words, at the end of the day, sports are about out scoring an opponent and a TD is a TD (maybe defensive TDs aside). If you score more TDs on fewer touches, it doesn't matter if they are in fewer "ways." It's still better.
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