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Message
re: Love opts out...
Posted on 6/24/15 at 3:59 pm to Dr. Shultz
Posted on 6/24/15 at 3:59 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
But we can be certain that his usage wouldn't by as high with Kyrie and Kevin Love playing. During the reg season LeBron could cost on offense and let Kyrie take a few possessions or toss it down to Love every now and then. He wasn't able to do that in the finals.
Except this was like the highest usage, least efficient post season of LeBron's career
0
Posted on 6/24/15 at 3:59 pm to THRILLHO
I think Love can play really well on a team with 4 good defenders and no LeBron. He just doesn't get to be enough of a focal point next to LeBron. About the only negative of having a player like LeBron on your team is that other great offensive players don't get the touches they are accustomed too, especially forwards.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:01 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Do you think the Cavs at full strength are better than the Grizzlies?
At full strength? Yes because Love is an absolute nightmare matchup for us. The team in the finals? No.
quote:
Grizzlies losing to them is more palatable in your mind if you believe no one else could've beat them.
No because they are a historically great team. 2 off games in the finals doesn't change that.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:03 pm to THRILLHO
Don't have time to read these six pages, but it's been clear as day for awhile that Love is going to do a S&T.
You don't give both PFs max or near max deals when neither can play the 5.
Tristan has the only agent in the league that plays with him.
The Wiggins deal is still up for debate depending on the haul they can get for Love.
You don't give both PFs max or near max deals when neither can play the 5.
Tristan has the only agent in the league that plays with him.
The Wiggins deal is still up for debate depending on the haul they can get for Love.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:03 pm to RTR America
All of those lineups hardly played together though. You are using outliers to form your case. You have to use lineups that played together for the majority of the minutes.
You either have to use the average of all lineups as your argument for pace or you have to use the lineup most used. Otherwise you are just cherry picking statistics to fall in line with your view. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works.
Oh really? and you don't think his #2 option (Kyrie) being injured through 6+ games, or his #3 option (Love) being injured through 15+ games, or his #4 option (JR Smith) being suspended in 2 games and then relegated to a 6th man role had any impact on his usage rating??
You either have to use the average of all lineups as your argument for pace or you have to use the lineup most used. Otherwise you are just cherry picking statistics to fall in line with your view. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works.
quote:
Except this was like the highest usage, least efficient post season of LeBron's career
Oh really? and you don't think his #2 option (Kyrie) being injured through 6+ games, or his #3 option (Love) being injured through 15+ games, or his #4 option (JR Smith) being suspended in 2 games and then relegated to a 6th man role had any impact on his usage rating??
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:08 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
All of those lineups hardly played together though. You are using outliers to form your case. You have to use lineups that played together for the majority of the minutes.
Those are their most played lineups in the playoffs...
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:10 pm to RTR America
quote:
Those are their most played lineups in the playoffs...
Maybe I'm reading the chart wrong... but from what I'm reading it shows that most of those lineups played less than 10 minutes per game together during the playoffs.
Is that the norm? Seems way low. Especially for the Cavs who only had 7 games play
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:12 pm to Dr. Shultz
They all played around 100 minutes each
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:14 pm to RTR America
The way I'm reading this chart is that only the top 3 teams played more than 10 minutes per game together.
For the cavs. It was exactly 10 mpg together.
That is to small of a sample size to say "oh well their team pace is so and so" that is why when people make a statistic for pace they average them all together.
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:16 pm to Dr. Shultz
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:19 pm to RTR America
Find the team stats. Not lineup specific. You can't just pick a certain lineup you have to average them all.
Hence..
reg season This includes before the big trades though so I believe the 97.3 or whatever you found earlier is a more accurate representation
post season
Hence..
reg season This includes before the big trades though so I believe the 97.3 or whatever you found earlier is a more accurate representation
post season
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:23 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
Find the team stats. Not lineup specific
Lineup specific is important though because of the discussion we are having. The pace dropped off significantly without Love and Kyrie in the lineups.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 4:26 pm to RTR America
quote:
Lineup specific is important though because of the discussion we are having. The pace dropped off significantly without Love and Kyrie in the lineups.
Yes. That is why you would use the entire team pace for just the finals.
Found this..
Post all star
Pace was 94.90
Last 6 playoff games
Pace was 94.78
Now, finals games without Kyrie..
Last 5 playoff games
Pace goes up to 95.68
If we do the ENTIRE playoffs which still included some K Love and some Kyrie..
Playoffs
We get 93.51 which is their lowest.
You can check my setting skills because I've never used that site but pretty sure the pace was almost identical from Post All star break (after trades) to what the Pace was during the whole finals.
and.. whenever we erase Kyrie from the finals stats (he played the whole 1st game) our pace actually INCREASED instead of decreased.
Please let me know if I did this right.
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 5:05 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:we are talking about the #1 pick in last years draft. of course everyone is unproven coming into the league, but come on!
dr. shultz
All im saying is that in the long run, id take the #1 overall pick on a cheaper contract knowing god damn well he will be a great player by the 2-3rd year instead of having a guy who will also only be the 3rd best player on the team (arguably last season) for more money who has a player option in the second year.
dont even act like the smart guy here. In the grand scheme of things, the #1 overall pick was just traded for a one year rental. Oh and by the way, that one year rental wasnt what everyone expected. (but to be fair, no one expected Love to have no love last season)
And if Clevland still had Wiggins, they would have money this year and next to get another star.
I guess our difference in opinion is that you think short term and i think long term. Cause id rather Lebron, Irving, Wiggins, and possibly another star for 4 years ALL frickIN DAY.
5 years from now, everyone will laugh at that trade.
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 5:08 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 5:13 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
Wiggins wouldn't have been anything but a bench player last year. He would have been a lesser version of Iman Shumpert. When you dumb fricks realize this you will understand why the Cavs traded him. They want to win championships NOW.
He's already better than shumpert is and ever will be
Posted on 6/24/15 at 5:17 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:wants a longer deal, especially after he just got injured
I thought he'd for sure opt in this year and just leave next year
Posted on 6/24/15 at 5:19 pm to sunnydaze
quote:
He's already better than shumpert is and ever will be
Definitely. The Shumpert argument was a little much.
Shumpert had to fight for time on the Knicks. The Knicks.
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 6:12 pm to Goldrush25
What about Cavs sign and trade Love to Portland for Aldridge? It was reported a few months back that the Cavs would be his leading option if Love left. It seems like with the Blazers trading Batum just now sometbing is brewing. Just speculation though.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 6:20 pm to Ryan3232
They wouldn't have money to sign a 4th star that's the thing. The only way they could do it last year was with a sign and trade (which is what they did to get Kevin love).
Same goes this year. The only way they can get someone else is with a sign and trade of Kevin love or TT. They aren't in a worse position.
And the shumpert argument is what I'm using bc that is the role wiggins would be asked to play here. He would have been a SG/SF coming off the bench and his production would have been similar to Shumperts. I'm not saying they are the same player.
And to say wiggins will be a sure fire superstar in 2-3 years is a little ridiculous. It's not like he dropped 20/4/4 his rookie season like kyrie Irving did.
He was like 16/4/2 on the worst team in the league with what.. 42% fg? Yall act like that's groundbreaking shite. Even MCW was better as a rookie. And please don't use that elite defense bull shite. Please go find me one statistic that shows he is a good defender. I know he has the tools to be but he sure hasn't shown it.
Not saying he won't be a star eventually but to say he's guaranteed to be a superstar in 2-3 years is pretty ridiculous
Same goes this year. The only way they can get someone else is with a sign and trade of Kevin love or TT. They aren't in a worse position.
And the shumpert argument is what I'm using bc that is the role wiggins would be asked to play here. He would have been a SG/SF coming off the bench and his production would have been similar to Shumperts. I'm not saying they are the same player.
And to say wiggins will be a sure fire superstar in 2-3 years is a little ridiculous. It's not like he dropped 20/4/4 his rookie season like kyrie Irving did.
He was like 16/4/2 on the worst team in the league with what.. 42% fg? Yall act like that's groundbreaking shite. Even MCW was better as a rookie. And please don't use that elite defense bull shite. Please go find me one statistic that shows he is a good defender. I know he has the tools to be but he sure hasn't shown it.
Not saying he won't be a star eventually but to say he's guaranteed to be a superstar in 2-3 years is pretty ridiculous
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 6:22 pm
Posted on 6/24/15 at 6:47 pm to Ryan3232
quote:no one knew that at the time of the trade fwiw.
All im saying is that in the long run, id take the #1 overall pick on a cheaper contract knowing god damn well he will be a great player by the 2-3rd year
quote:and yet you are acting like the smart guy who magically knows love is leaving? Today changed nothing.
dont even act like the smart guy here. In the grand scheme of things, the #1 overall pick was just traded for a one year rental.
quote:When 30 year old lebron is on your team, you don't plan for 5 years from now, you plan for the present.
I guess our difference in opinion is that you think short term and i think long term
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