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Message
re: Louisiana High School Football will split Public/Private. **Edited with Yes/No**
Posted on 2/2/13 at 8:25 am to RidiculousHype
Posted on 2/2/13 at 8:25 am to RidiculousHype
Politicians that want to meddle will find a way to meddle. A more likely scenario is a court injunction that will tie the changes up at least beyond the 2013 season, giving the private schools time to have everything in place to form their own organization. It will be a case of who blinks first. And I suspect there will be some changes in the LHSAA administration, but I'm not as close to that as some of you are.
1
Posted on 2/2/13 at 1:02 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:
I think what that does is increase the chances of the LHSAA folding long term. Politicians can't step in and save it from itself now, and the privates are about to break off and start a new org where they're the majority
I wouldn't rely on politicians to save anyone from anyone very often.
And to be honest, I'm not sure I've seen a case presented as to how it would benefit the privates to break off. I can understand using the threat of it as leverage in negotiations. And I can understand the urge to act out of spite. But I think at the end of the day, most entities act in their own best interest and I'm just not sure I'm seeing how that move would be in their best interest.
Posted on 2/2/13 at 1:07 pm to Methuselah
new association= no rules
no rules= recruiting
recruiting= better teams
better teams= enrollment
no rules= recruiting
recruiting= better teams
better teams= enrollment
Posted on 2/2/13 at 1:18 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
new association= no rules
seriously doubt that
quote:
no rules= recruiting
Say goodbye to JC, ECA, and a few others from the "new" association
quote:
recruiting= better teams
Really? Son come pay your own way to a school that can no longer win THE state championship.
"Uh, no thanks"
quote:
better teams= enrollment
Really? With all these championships and star athletes how much has JC and ECA grown over the last decade?
I'll hang up and listen
Posted on 2/2/13 at 2:40 pm to Icansee4miles
quote:
Politicians that want to meddle will find a way to meddle. A more likely scenario is a court injunction that will tie the changes up at least beyond the 2013 season, giving the private schools time to have everything in place to form their own organization. It will be a case of who blinks first. And I suspect there will be some changes in the LHSAA administration, but I'm not as close to that as some of you are.
spot on
Posted on 2/2/13 at 10:20 pm to League Champs
You really don't get that "the" state championship will be the one with the selects.
Tell me this, how is the regular champ going to be "the" state champ if all the defending champs are on the select side? Please answer that.
Tell me this, how is the regular champ going to be "the" state champ if all the defending champs are on the select side? Please answer that.
Posted on 2/2/13 at 10:27 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
Tell me this, how is the regular champ going to be "the" state champ if all the defending champs are on the select side? Please answer that.
Is 5A the only legit state champion now? I'd look at it like that. Teams playing under different parameters. Most of the time the 5A champ will beat the 3A champ. That doesn't make the 3A champ unworthy of recognition.
Posted on 2/2/13 at 11:22 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
better teams= enrollment
I can agree.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:25 am to CourseyCorridor
quote:
You really don't get that "the" state championship will be the one with the selects.
Tell me this, how is the regular champ going to be "the" state champ if all the defending champs are on the select side? Please answer that.
So when 5A champs are listed, its gonna say
quote:
2008 Destrehan 14, West Monroe 3
2009 West Monroe 30, Rummel 0
2010 Acadiana 21, West Monroe 14
2011 West Monroe 20, Carencro 13
2012 Rummel 35, Barbe 14
2013 West Monroe
2014 Carencro and so on and so on
Same for 4A, same for 3A, 2A, and 1A
The select trophy will say
2009 n/a
2010 n/a
2011 n/a
2012 n/a
2013 John Curtis
2014 Evangel and so on and so on
Do you get which will be seen as more historic, prestigious, sought after?
McCarron may win the Peyton Manning all-American QB award (I made that up), but Manziel will be the one talked about for years to come, because there is a tradition already built in to the Heisman.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 11:18 am to League Champs
I think it will be more like:
LSU BCS Champ
USC AP Champ
And nobody really wins
LSU BCS Champ
USC AP Champ
And nobody really wins
Posted on 2/3/13 at 12:48 pm to League Champs
Of course it will. But I think for most outlets, it will read like this:
Superdome Clasic
Select Division
Division I: St. Augustine 28, Karr 21
Division II: Curtis, 24, Evangel 21
Divison III: Ouachita Christian 20,Calvary 19
Regular Division
Class 5A: West Monroe 42, Barbe 35
Class 4A: Neville, unopposed...
etc, etc.
I mean, isn't the select division better than the regular division? Isn't that why it's called "select?" Isn't the reasoning behind the creation of the select division that the other schools can't compete with them?
The non-selects made themselves the I-AA of high school football and the select division is the BCS.
Superdome Clasic
Select Division
Division I: St. Augustine 28, Karr 21
Division II: Curtis, 24, Evangel 21
Divison III: Ouachita Christian 20,Calvary 19
Regular Division
Class 5A: West Monroe 42, Barbe 35
Class 4A: Neville, unopposed...
etc, etc.
I mean, isn't the select division better than the regular division? Isn't that why it's called "select?" Isn't the reasoning behind the creation of the select division that the other schools can't compete with them?
The non-selects made themselves the I-AA of high school football and the select division is the BCS.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 2/3/13 at 12:57 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Is 5A the only legit state champion now? I'd look at it like that. Teams playing under different parameters. Most of the time the 5A champ will beat the 3A champ. That doesn't make the 3A champ unworthy of recognition.
There's a point where it gets ridiculous. 8-10 state champions is way to much in a state that has maybe 300 football playing schools. I thought five classes was too many. I thought they should have had just four. If you win in a class with 70-something schools, that's something. Only having 50-something schools per class made 32-team playoff fields too watered down.
Anyway, now you're talking about doubling it, meaning, on average, you state "champion" is the best of about 27-30 teams, tops.
What's going to happen, especially considering the premise of the breakup, is that people will look at the public school champs with an asterisk.
"Yeah, West St. John won 1A, but they wouldn't beat Ouachita Christian." That sort of thing.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:01 pm to CourseyCorridor
i will argue that the larger non select classes are pretty legit, but 2A champions will be teams that would never sniff it if Curtis or whoever was in it.
the "eye test" will be used in the future to decide who the best team was in each class, just like the eye test put Alabama in the BCS over Oklahoma State....
the "eye test" will be used in the future to decide who the best team was in each class, just like the eye test put Alabama in the BCS over Oklahoma State....
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:27 pm to League Champs
Remember how you said public schools can't do the things that private schools do with their player development systems? As this story illustrates, that's utter nonsense:
LINK
The issue is, a lot of public schools don't want to invest (and not necessarily monetarily) in what it takes to be good at something. They want mediocre effort to be rewarded in the same way excellence is rewarded.
It's not just football or athletics, it's everything a lot of our public schools do. The emphasis is doing enough to meet a minimal standard, as opposed to thriving to be the best.
But at schools that "get it," public or private, excellence is achieved. It just so happens that, in a lot of cases, people who are interested in achieving excellence has found they need to achieve it at a private school because the local public schools systemically don't allow it to happen.
In terms of football, you have to have enough coaches. You have to have multiple sub-varsity teams that are getting quality reps at practice and quality game time. You have to have more than one or two coaches at the middle schools and the middle schoolers need to be learning the game in a way where it's not being taught at a remedial level during freshman football. You have to have facilities.
Etc., etc.
And the public schools are perfectly capable of having all this. Many don't and instead they blame the private schools for having it.
The problem is, Winnfield can do all this but still not win because EBR schools can't get their act together, so anybody in BR who has ambition for their kids' athletic future will probably send their kids to private school, most of which play in 1A, 2A or 3A against mostly small town, public schools.
That's the only part that isn't fair in this whole deal.
LINK
The issue is, a lot of public schools don't want to invest (and not necessarily monetarily) in what it takes to be good at something. They want mediocre effort to be rewarded in the same way excellence is rewarded.
It's not just football or athletics, it's everything a lot of our public schools do. The emphasis is doing enough to meet a minimal standard, as opposed to thriving to be the best.
But at schools that "get it," public or private, excellence is achieved. It just so happens that, in a lot of cases, people who are interested in achieving excellence has found they need to achieve it at a private school because the local public schools systemically don't allow it to happen.
In terms of football, you have to have enough coaches. You have to have multiple sub-varsity teams that are getting quality reps at practice and quality game time. You have to have more than one or two coaches at the middle schools and the middle schoolers need to be learning the game in a way where it's not being taught at a remedial level during freshman football. You have to have facilities.
Etc., etc.
And the public schools are perfectly capable of having all this. Many don't and instead they blame the private schools for having it.
The problem is, Winnfield can do all this but still not win because EBR schools can't get their act together, so anybody in BR who has ambition for their kids' athletic future will probably send their kids to private school, most of which play in 1A, 2A or 3A against mostly small town, public schools.
That's the only part that isn't fair in this whole deal.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:31 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
Remember how you said public schools can't do the things that private schools do with their player development systems? As this story illustrates, that's utter nonsense:
LINK
The issue is, a lot of public schools don't want to invest (and not necessarily monetarily) in what it takes to be good at something. They want mediocre effort to be rewarded in the same way excellence is rewarded.
It's not just football or athletics, it's everything a lot of our public schools do. The emphasis is doing enough to meet a minimal standard, as opposed to thriving to be the best.
But at schools that "get it," public or private, excellence is achieved. It just so happens that, in a lot of cases, people who are interested in achieving excellence has found they need to achieve it at a private school because the local public schools systemically don't allow it to happen.
In terms of football, you have to have enough coaches. You have to have multiple sub-varsity teams that are getting quality reps at practice and quality game time. You have to have more than one or two coaches at the middle schools and the middle schoolers need to be learning the game in a way where it's not being taught at a remedial level during freshman football. You have to have facilities.
Etc., etc.
And the public schools are perfectly capable of having all this. Many don't and instead they blame the private schools for having it.
The problem is, Winnfield can do all this but still not win because EBR schools can't get their act together, so anybody in BR who has ambition for their kids' athletic future will probably send their kids to private school, most of which play in 1A, 2A or 3A against mostly small town, public schools.
That's the only part that isn't fair in this whole deal.
Lazy public school coaches.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:50 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
i will argue that the larger non select classes are pretty legit, but 2A champions will be teams that would never sniff it if Curtis or whoever was in it.
The point being Curtis shouldn't be in 2A to begin with. The fact that they are is what started this trainwreck.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
The point being Curtis shouldn't be in 2A to begin with.
but they were. it's not like they went undefeated for six years.
some schools shouldn't be in 5A but they're not petitioning to move down
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:48 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
The issue is, a lot of public schools don't want to invest (and not necessarily monetarily) in what it takes to be good at something. They want mediocre effort to be rewarded in the same way excellence is rewarded.
Sorry, but the article does not support your fantasy. Lets look at the team mentioned in the article:
Hahnville (public) hasnt been to a final in 17 years - voted to split
St Charles Catholic (private) State champ last year - Voted No
Destrehan (public) hasnt been to a finals in 4 years - voted to split
St. James (public) hasnt been to a finals in 5 years - voted to split
West St John (public) finals last year - voted to split
John Curtis (private) State champs or finals almost every year for 20 years - voted No
The publics know that even the years that you get a once in a lifetime team, they have to go up against kids that have been playing together for 7/8 years. If LSU could have its athletes on campus for 8 years, they would be a dynasty
Since 2000 a select school has been in the finals:
1A -- 9 of 12 years, with 3 years all select teams
2A -- 9 of 12 years, with 5 years all select
3A -- 11 of 12 years, with 4 years all select
4A -- 11 of 12 years, with 4 years all select
5A -- 7 of 12 years, no all select years
And its not like these are all dynasty programs, only John Curtis and Evangel show up every year. There have been 16 other selects that have showed up in the finals. Thats 23% of the select schools playing in 64% of the football finals.
It has little to do with long term investment/coaching when 16 of the 18 select programs rarely repeat their success. Its about recruiting a stacked team, then falling back to where you were
Posted on 2/3/13 at 3:52 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
The point being Curtis shouldn't be in 2A to begin with.
Wussification of America. They have 2A enrollment. If your team sucks that bad, go play intramurals at the park. Don't bring down other teams because your team can't get it done.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 4:23 pm to League Champs
quote:
Same for 4A, same for 3A, 2A, and 1A
The select trophy will say
2009 n/a
2010 n/a
2011 n/a
2012 n/a
2013 John Curtis
2014 Evangel and so on and so on
Do you get which will be seen as more historic, prestigious, sought after?
Come on now, you really think its less prestigious because its the first year to have a select division? Everyone is going to know where the best competition is.
I don't remember who said it, but in this thread, they labelled the two divisions competitive and non-competitive. Who are the schools voting to play everyone...? the competitive. Who are the schools voting to not play everyone...? the non competitive.
History and prestige will be seen in both divisions but more so on the side of the competitives.
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