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Started By
Message
re: Jimmy butler to Minnesota
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:46 am to Madking
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:46 am to Madking
quote:They may be less valuable without context, but that has nothing to do with subjectivity.
Numbers are subjective without context
quote:And athleticism is an important innate predictor of success and performance, but it's irrelevant when the performance data are available.
The reality about Wiggins is he's an A++ athlete
quote:He should be a good defender, but he's one of the worst in the league.
advanced defensive player for his age
quote:3 years? The expectation was that the a super-hyped #1 draft pick, would take 6 years to become a below league average shooter?
and his jump shot has developed 3 years faster than initially expected.
quote:No he's not, especially defensively. One of the worst defensive players in the league is not "ahead of the curve." And as the a super hyped #1 draft pick, he's far below expectations.
He's ahead of the curve for his age both offensively and defensively
quote:His value should increase because Butler should supplant Wiggins' unwarranted minutes.
and will be a great weapon alongside Jimmy Butler.
2
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:54 am to buckeye_vol
Wrong wrong wrong.. He wasn't a super hyped number 1 pick Joel Embiid was the consensus number 1 prospect in that draft but injuries particularly lower body on a big man scared ppl off that's the first falsity. Number 2 his jump shot developed way early, nobody expected him to even have 1 until year three he was considered a raw athletic defender who would score his points at the rim and in transition when he came into the league and by the second half of his rookie year he avged like 25 a game or something and shooting the ball 100% better than expected. Number 3 defense is a team thing numbers in noway can tell you much about a wing defender there literally less than 1% of NBA wings who can stop or slow down the top 50 offensive players and he's been a good defensive player since his rookie year. Now he's not consistently great like all NBA guys hardly any players his age throughout history are but he's def ahead of the curve both ways, compare him to any wing in the past 4 years and he's head and shoulders above all of them save 1.
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 1:59 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:55 am to buckeye_vol
Butler will not supplant his minutes they don't play the same position. Wiggins is a 3 Butler a 2. Butler played 3 a lot this year because of Wade but that's not his natural position.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:58 am to Madking
quote:Giannis Antetokounmpo is clearly the best wing player from the previous 4 drafts, and Parker and Porter have been consistently better than Wiggins. So if "4th best" wing player from the last 4 drafts is a standard for a #1 super hyped draft pick, then we've really lowered the bar.
Compare Wiggins to the other wings in the past 4 years
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:03 am to buckeye_vol
Giannis didn't start as a wing he started out as a 4 Parker isn't as good as Wiggins and No clue who Porter is. Even if you're right about that which you're not 4th out if 150 selected players isn't too bad. And again he wasn't even considered the number 1 prospect so no matter how many times you say it you're wrong about him being an overhyped 1. What are you the Lavar Ball of the msb?
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:05 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:05 am to buckeye_vol
Oh Otto Porter lmfao lmfao lmfao lmfao!!!!! You think he's better than Wiggins lmfao nothing els need be said.
Wiggins 20.4 ppg career as the number 1 option
Porter 9.3 as a player nobody ever game planned for in history
Wiggins 20.4 ppg career as the number 1 option
Porter 9.3 as a player nobody ever game planned for in history
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:16 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:06 am to Madking
quote:
He wasn't a super hyped number 1 pick
What? He was like Canadian LeBron James coming out of high school. There was even talk of Wiggins giving team Canada some boost on the international scene for the Olympics. Right now Wiggins is a 3rd option AT best on a playoff team. Which is why Minny felt they needed to deal for Butler. If you remember, they had a deal last year but stepped away from it, hoping Wiggins makes the next step. He hasn't, at least the step he was supposed to take.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:09 am to Madking
quote:
Madking
you're downvoting those who disagree with you 
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:10 am to Madking
quote:
He wasn't a super hyped number 1 pick Joel Embiid was the consensus number 1 prospect in that draft but injuries particularly lower body on a big man scared ppl off that's the first falsity.
Uhh, that's flat out wrong. Even early in 2013, Wiggins and Parker were consensus 1-2. Wiggins was by far the favorite to be #1 even before Embiid's injury.
His injury wasn't even a "lower body" or foot injury, it was his back.
quote:
Number 2 his jump shot developed way early, nobody expected him to even have 1 until year three he was considered a raw athletic defender who would score his points at the rim and in transition when he came into the league and by the second half of his rookie year he avged like 25 a game or something and shooting the ball 100% better than expected.
elite prospects take about 2-3 years to make a jump...the issue is he's never made a jump. He's a raw athletic defender who sucks at defending.
POST-ASB his rookie year: 20.0 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.3 APG shooting 44.6/16.1/78.3
PRE-ASB his rookie year: 15.2 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 1.9 APG
shooting 43.1/35.8/73.7
attempting 2 more FGA and 3 more FTA post-ASB compared to PRE-ASB. He also shot worse midrange and 3pt
quote:
Number 3 defense is a team thing numbers in noway can tell you much about a wing defender there literally less than 1% of NBA wings who can stop or slow down the top 50 offensive players and he's been a good defensive player since his rookie year. Now he's not consistently great like all NBA guys hardly any players his age throughout history are but he's def ahead of the curve both ways, compare him to any wing in the past 4 years and he's head and shoulders above all of them save 1.
He's a bad defender, that's just the reality of it. Even Minnesota fans have been ripping their heads over how stagnant his growth outside of "scoring" is.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:11 am to theducks
Not true Embiid was the top prospect that year and nobody has ever compared Wiggins to Lebron until you did just now. And Wiggins has been the number 1 option for the T-wolves since he's been there. Seriously just stop you have no clue what you're talking about.
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:12 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:12 am to theducks
I don't down or upvote but thanks for showing your ignorance. And btw isn't that what it's for and exactly what you do? How stupid are you really?
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:14 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:17 am to Madking
quote:
Not true Embiid was the top prospect that year and nobody has ever compared Wiggins to Lebron until you did just now. And Wiggins has been the number 1 option for the T-wolves since he's been there. Seriously just stop you have no clue what you're talking about.
June 28, 2013 - BR
LINK
Wiggins: #1
Randle: #2
Parker: #3
Embiid: #12
June 28, 2013 - SN
LINK
Wiggins: #1
Randle: #2
Parker: #3
Embiid: #22
here's also an excerpt
quote:
Parker vs. Randle vs. Wiggins has been the big debate in AAU circles for years so these guys have known each other for a very long time. I'm calling a Welcome Party in 2021 right now.
there's A LOT more mock drafts for 2014 from June 2013 right after the 2013 draft. All of them say Wiggins #1
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:17 am to Madking
quote:
nobody has ever compared Wiggins to Lebron
I never said he was like LeBron? Just said he's Canadian LeBron during the years leading up to the draft.
quote:
And Wiggins has been the number 1 option for the T-wolves since he's been there
He takes 1 more shot attempt than KAT while averaging LESS ASSIST THAN THE CENTER ON HIS OWN TEAM!!! He's a ball hog the only reason he even seems like the #1 option. It's KAT's team dude.
quote:
Seriously just stop you have no clue what you're talking about
Right, tell me again about Embiid's foot injury during his time at Kansas again
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:24 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:19 am to htran90
Also, Rivals: Wiggins #1, Parker #4, Embiid #25
He was never the top prospect at any point going into the 2013 NCAA season. It was ALWAYS Wiggins.
He was never the top prospect at any point going into the 2013 NCAA season. It was ALWAYS Wiggins.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:19 am to Madking
quote:He was the unanimous #1 prospect, and was dubbed the "next one." Embiid wasn't even in the top 10 in many rankings.
Wrong wrong wrong.. He wasn't a super hyped number 1 pick
What Makes Andrew Wiggins One of Most Hyped NBA Prospects Since LeBron James?
Andrew Wiggins Isn't the New LeBron James (Yet)
Andrew Wiggins Dealing with LeBron-type Hype
Ranking the Most Hyped CBB Freshmen of the Last Decade
quote:
1. Andrew Wiggins, Kansas (2013)
quote:
In April 2012—two months after his 17th birthday and 2 ½ years before he was scheduled to begin his college basketball career—Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress dubbed Wiggins "one of the most talented prospects in the world currently outside the NBA." But that was child's play compared to where things were headed.
quote:He's literally one of the worst defensive players in the league. You can say he's good, and he SHOULD be good, but he's been terrible, pathetically terrible--like wow level terrible given his ability.
Number 3 defense is a team thing numbers in noway can tell you much about a wing defender there literally less than 1% of NBA wings who can stop or slow down the top 50 offensive players and he's been a good defensive player since his rookie year.
This post was edited on 6/23/17 at 2:23 am
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:23 am to htran90
I don't know if you know this but Embiid was injured during his only year in college which is why he went 3 instead of 1.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:24 am to htran90
Scout ranked Embiid number 1 rivals number 2 he started playing basketball at 16. You don't know much about this do you?
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:25 am to theducks
Nah I'll pass you're pretty stupid so what's the point
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:26 am to buckeye_vol
Posted on 6/23/17 at 2:34 am to Madking
quote:Scout: 2013 Basketball Recruiting Prospects
Scout ranked Embiid number 1
quote:WRONG!
1. Andrew Wiggins
23.Joel Embiid
quote:Rivals: 2013 Basketball Recruiting Rankings
rivals number 2
quote:WRONG!
1. Andrew Wiggins
25. Joel Embiid
Why would you make up such easily verifiable facts?
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