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Message
James Harrison play - - NFL Rules That Make No Sense
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:10 am
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:10 am
Why is that play any different from roughing the kicker? The kick is away when the punter is hit, yet the offensive team gets to keep possession. Both are personal fouls, and imo the Harrison play is ten times worse than most roughing the kicker plays where guys just get too close to the kicker when going for the ball.
Another one...forward progress. Gives much too much advantage to the offensive player. Why do they give the runner so much time to get out of a tackle. The safety last night should have come two plays sooner.
Finally, and this one always kills me. A punt hits a member of the punting team at the 10 and rolls to the 1 where it is downed. They move it back to the 10. But if it hits someone at the 2 and goes into the end zone...it goes to the 20...totally inconsistent.
Another one...forward progress. Gives much too much advantage to the offensive player. Why do they give the runner so much time to get out of a tackle. The safety last night should have come two plays sooner.
Finally, and this one always kills me. A punt hits a member of the punting team at the 10 and rolls to the 1 where it is downed. They move it back to the 10. But if it hits someone at the 2 and goes into the end zone...it goes to the 20...totally inconsistent.
7
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:12 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
.forward progress. Gives much too much advantage to the offensive player
i fricking hate forward progress for this reason
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:12 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
Why is that play any different from roughing the kicker? The kick is away when the punter is hit, yet the offensive team gets to keep possession. Both are personal fouls, and imo the Harrison play is ten times worse than most roughing the kicker plays where guys just get too close to the kicker when going for the ball.
They are trying to protect the defenseless kicker and theoretically it is still within the transfer of possession because the kick has not been completed.
quote:
Another one...forward progress. Gives much too much advantage to the offensive player. Why do they give the runner so much time to get out of a tackle. The safety last night should have come two plays sooner.
That was not a safety and shouldn't have IMO.
quote:
Finally, and this one always kills me. A punt hits a member of the punting team at the 10 and rolls to the 1 where it is downed. They move it back to the 10. But if it hits someone at the 2 and goes into the end zone...it goes to the 20...totally inconsistent.
Really? Come on now.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:14 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
Why is that play any different from roughing the kicker? The kick is away when the punter is hit, yet the offensive team gets to keep possession.
Change of possession does not occur until the ball passes the line of scrimmage.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:14 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
That was not a safety and shouldn't have IMO.
his forward progress was stopped in the end zone
forward progress is a rule that is only used to help out offensive players
quote:
Really? Come on now.
if the ball is dead it should stay dead
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:15 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
They are trying to protect the defenseless kicker and theoretically it is still within the transfer of possession because the kick has not been completed.
so anything that happens before the ball is caught is pre-possession? Do we know the ball had been caught before Harrison started his mugging routine?
quote:
That was not a safety and shouldn't have IMO
He looked stopped to me.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:16 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
orward progress. Gives much too much advantage to the offensive player
Too many rules give too much advantage to the offense.
PI as a spot foul is ridiculous.
Crap they called it last night and in the SD Indy game, I think its defensive holding or something, its a5 yd penalty, but an automatic 1st down. wtf?
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:16 am to SlowFlowPro
The ball isn't "dead" though. It's still moving.
So in your theory, you want the punting team to be able to knock the ball back to the one yard line every time? and let it come to rest there?
Or are you saying that you want the ball to be touched at the one with a finger tip and then bounce out of the back of the endzone but its ok because he downed it at the one with his finger?
So in your theory, you want the punting team to be able to knock the ball back to the one yard line every time? and let it come to rest there?
Or are you saying that you want the ball to be touched at the one with a finger tip and then bounce out of the back of the endzone but its ok because he downed it at the one with his finger?
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:17 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
A punt hits a member of the punting team at the 10 and rolls to the 1 where it is downed. They move it back to the 10.
They must call it like this otherwise players could bat the ball down the field to create a longer punt.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:17 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
so anything that happens before the ball is caught is pre-possession?
No, anything that occurs before the ball crosses the line of scrimmage is pre-possession.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:18 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
So in your theory, you want the punting team to be able to knock the ball back to the one yard line every time? and let it come to rest there?
No
quote:
Or are you saying that you want the ball to be touched at the one with a finger tip and then bounce out of the back of the endzone but its ok because he downed it at the one with his finger?
Yes
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:19 am to busbeepbeep
quote:
They must call it like this otherwise players could bat the ball down the field to create a longer punt.
not arguing that point...just the opposite, that once the ball is hit, it's dead.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:20 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
The ball isn't "dead" though. It's still moving.
when it hits a team punting the ball, it's dead
quote:
So in your theory, you want the punting team to be able to knock the ball back to the one yard line every time? and let it come to rest there?
no
where they hit it, it's dead. that should be the consistent rule
quote:
Or are you saying that you want the ball to be touched at the one with a finger tip and then bounce out of the back of the endzone but its ok because he downed it at the one with his finger?
either way, as long as it's consistent
why should a finger tip stop a ball that is moving backwards towards the end zone (that will be touched down before the end zone).
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:22 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
not arguing that point...just the opposite, that once the ball is hit, it's dead.
No the receiving team can pick it up and run for a touchdown, or can pick it up run fumble it and then it goes back to where the punting team first touched it.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:22 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
anything that occurs before the ball crosses the line of scrimmage is pre-possession.
Well in that case, I've seen many a punter get nailed well after his punt is away...it was bound to have passed the LOS.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:25 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
Well in that case, I've seen many a punter get nailed well after his punt is away...it was bound to have passed the LOS.
Doubt that it has happened many of times, but I am sure that it has happen and no they won't call it that way. But the rule is whether the punted ball has crossed the line of scrimmage, this also applies to blocked punts, facemasks, holding, etc.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:37 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
PI as a spot foul is ridiculous.
Agree. If there was ever an infraction that needed different interpretations, it's PI. Making an honest effort for the ball shouldn't be penalized the same as a DB mugging a receiver because he's been beaten.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:43 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
It assumes he's going to catch the ball, which is not a given.
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:43 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
Agree. If there was ever an infraction that needed different interpretations, it's PI. Making an honest effort for the ball shouldn't be penalized the same as a DB mugging a receiver because he's been beaten.
Sounds like you'd rather something like they used to have for Facemask, degrees of intention or something like that.
PI is fine, it's the refs throwing the damn thing on 3rd and 20 in overtime when a team throws up a prayer into triple coverage that is the problem. That should be the same as a hail mary, swallow the flags.
ETA: I hate the "all PI will be 15 yards" because if you get beat, you may as well just tackle the guy because it's only 15 yards. The way it is now, you have to try and recover because if you tackle him it's the same as a catch.
As for the "safety should have been 2 plays earlier", there has to be some time of being held up to say the play should have been dead. He was stopped but kept moving, his knee never hit and he lunged out of the end zone. It was a good call.
Harrison's late hit was just that - very late, probably after the play but I didn't try to sync it up. What some don't seem to realize is the penalty was not for holding the player down but for the hit after when the Cardinals guy got up on one knee and then got hit again. Much different from roughing the kicker, which I believe is a special rule. Just like how you can hit a player in the head, but if it's the QB it's a penalty. Special cases exist.
This post was edited on 2/2/09 at 10:46 am
Posted on 2/2/09 at 10:49 am to Eternalmajin
quote:
Sounds like you'd rather something like they used to have for Facemask, degrees of intention or something like that.
Yes...I know it's a judgement call and we have enough of that as it is, but I think it's needed.
quote:
Harrison's late hit was just that - very late, probably after the play but I didn't try to sync it up. What some don't seem to realize is the penalty was not for holding the player down but for the hit after when the Cardinals guy got up on one knee and then got hit again. Much different from roughing the kicker, which I believe is a special rule. Just like how you can hit a player in the head, but if it's the QB it's a penalty. Special cases exist.
You're probably right on the timing, but if you really want to curtail that type of infraction, make it hurt...and worse than a 15 yard penalty...in this case it was a half yard penalty. Otherwise, guys can just tee off on a punt because they know the worst that can happen is a 15 yd penalty.
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