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re: Is Shelby Miller the leading NL Cy Young award candidate?
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:00 am to kilo
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:00 am to kilo
The most ridiculous part is you crowning a 24 y/o pitcher with Miller's pedigree as a back end rotation guy and declaring it a horrible trade for ATL before he even threw a pitch for them. All the while your fanbase was on his nuts as the future GOAT up until 2014. You can't even judge the trade after this season for a 24 y/o pitcher
Miller is way ahead of the learning curve for a starting pitcher. He's got a better career ERA than Stepen Strasburg, and people perceive stras as one of the best arms in the game. You look how long it took guys like Scherzer or Samardjiza or even Randy Johnson or Dave Stewart if you want to go back further.. shite, your very own Chris carpenter. You initial statements were asinine, baw
Miller is way ahead of the learning curve for a starting pitcher. He's got a better career ERA than Stepen Strasburg, and people perceive stras as one of the best arms in the game. You look how long it took guys like Scherzer or Samardjiza or even Randy Johnson or Dave Stewart if you want to go back further.. shite, your very own Chris carpenter. You initial statements were asinine, baw
1
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:26 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
The most ridiculous part is you crowning a 24 y/o pitcher with Miller's pedigree as a back end rotation guy and declaring it a horrible trade for ATL before he even threw a pitch for them. All the while your fanbase was on his nuts as the future GOAT up until 2014.
3-4 is not a "back end pitcher", I even said in many further posts after that first one that he has potential if he could work through his issues as solid #2 yet here we are watching the Braces faithful claim he is a Top Ace and peers with pitchers like Kershaw while his advanced stats show a regression coming.
Once again its more a game of "gotcha" and "frick this Cardinals fan" nonsense than it is about having a real discussion about Miller. Our fan base wasnt on his nuts either in fact many soured on him for reasons already explained else where.
Its early. The opponents he has faced matter, his advanced stats/metrics matter.
You can say he is an Ace based on 8 starts that have some issues/caveats but I cant call him a middle of the rotation pitcher as a bottom end projection without that being "the most ridiculous" thing said.
No, Im sorry man, the most "ridiculous" shite going on here is labeling Miller "Cy young" candidate and "Future ace" after only 8 starts in which his advanced stats tell a story and the opponents faced also tell a story that varies slightly from that narrative.
quote:
You can't even judge the trade after this season for a 24 y/o pitcher
But its ok for these Braves fans to do so right here and now? Hilarious. Try to hide your hypocrisy a little man, you dont wear it well.
quote:
You initial statements were asinine, baw
How do you know? Didnt you just say this?
quote:
You can't even judge the trade after this season for a 24 y/o pitcher
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:50 am to kilo
Max Scherzer
Shelby has been great, but way more of his success has been batted ball luck, while Max is just truly dominant.
Shelby has been great, but way more of his success has been batted ball luck, while Max is just truly dominant.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:54 am to The Seaward
quote:
Shelby has been great, but way more of his success has been batted ball luck,
BABIP of .203 agrees completely with this. How anyone who understands advanced metrics cant see this is a little puzzling.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 2:01 am to kilo
I think that was coming into the day too. It will be a good bit lower now after giving up 2 hits on about 24 balls in play.
This post was edited on 5/18/15 at 2:05 am
Posted on 5/18/15 at 4:31 am to The Seaward
and the exact opposite is clayton. he has been absolutely fricked by luck. once he gets his BABIP and his HR/FB rate down to where they normally are, hell start going 7 innings every outing again
Posted on 5/18/15 at 9:34 am to kilo
quote:It's OK to be wrong man. Just admit you were. Now you look foolish trying to bring down a guy that was one out away from a no hitter.
He wasn't a front end of the rotation guy. That's a fact. He has been much better but still gets into trouble sometimes with pitch counts. He appears to have a working cutter now as well which is good. He needed to get away from relying on his. 4 seam. still think the better long term player is in the minors in that trade for you all.
It's still may though man. Are you really judging the long term value of a trade after a 6 weeks? He wouldn't be true ace on any contenders right now. It's also funny that you think it bothers cards fans. Congrats on the trade "win" at the 6 week Mark
Posted on 5/18/15 at 9:36 am to dhuck20
quote:Even more so he looks foolish for bringing down the MLB leader in ERA, BAA, CG, and WHIP.
Now you look foolish trying to bring down a guy that was one out away from a no hitter.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 10:21 am to kilo
The best part of the trade is the fact that we don't have to hear some of our fans try to keep convincing us that Heyward is more valuable than Freddie Freeman.....the WAR geeks were unbearable as frick!! I'm just happy Cards fans get to watch him constantly get jammed by 89 mph fastballs and hit weak ground balls to second base
Posted on 5/18/15 at 10:26 am to kilo
1 or 2 is a top of the rotation guy
A 3 is a mid rotation guy
4 and 5 would be back end
Pretty simple
No one thinks miller will sustain his babip. It's not prophetic to proclaim that he's going to regress. Mariano a babip God and miller is 70 points better.
But that's not to say he isn't a groundball pitcher inducing weak contact.
A 3 is a mid rotation guy
4 and 5 would be back end
Pretty simple
No one thinks miller will sustain his babip. It's not prophetic to proclaim that he's going to regress. Mariano a babip God and miller is 70 points better.
But that's not to say he isn't a groundball pitcher inducing weak contact.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 10:29 am to kilo
He's going to regress, obviously. But he'll still be better than jason heyward
Posted on 5/18/15 at 10:39 am to HarrisLetsRide
quote:
The best part of the trade is the fact that we don't have to hear some of our fans try to keep convincing us that Heyward is more valuable than Freddie Freeman.....the WAR geeks were unbearable as frick!!
frickING THIS. So glad Heyward is gone. It was getting fricking old watching him struggle to hit an inside pitch and bat .200 for most of the year and go on one hot streak to bring his BA up to somewhat respectable levels.
Really hard to hear "dat defense doe" all fricking season with him while watching him look like an infantile retard trying to hit an inside fastball.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 12:03 pm to GynoSandberg
Not a bad place to be a groundball pitcher with Simmons fielding so many chances for him. I bet he will have a sub .300 BABIP going forward.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 12:44 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
says the guy who said this the day of the trade: quote: its a bad trade for the Braves. Miller isnt the front end of the rotation guy we though he was when drafted. he is a 3-4 in the rotation type guy. Im not trying to rub it in but I think the Cards got over big time on the Braves
Posted on 5/18/15 at 12:45 pm to okietiger
Posted on 5/18/15 at 12:49 pm to Lester Earl
Cliffnotes of Lester vs kilo in this thread for anyone just joining us:
Posted on 5/18/15 at 1:41 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Not a bad place to be a groundball pitcher with Simmons fielding so many chances for him. I bet he will have a sub .300 BABIP going forward.
The funny thing is he was always a fly ball guy before this year. He does seem to have changed his repertoire though, so maybe this new groundball rate is here to stay. Also, he has always run low BABIPs as well. His career BABIP of .257 is well below average. Whether this is some sort of skill or mostly luck is hard to tell though.
Posted on 5/18/15 at 2:52 pm to kilo
quote:
No, Im sorry man, the most "ridiculous" shite going on here is labeling Miller "Cy young" candidate and "Future ace" after only 8 starts
Ridiculous to call the MLB leader in ERA a Cy Young candidate? lolwut :roll eyes:
quote:
You can say he is an Ace based on 8 starts that have some issues/caveats but I cant call him a middle of the rotation pitcher as a bottom end projection without that being "the most ridiculous" thing said.
The thing that is unbelievably ridiculous is where you put the top end projection, not the bottom end. Its a 25 year old pitcher leading the MLB in ERA. He might be more likely than not to never be a legit ace, but it is absolutely ridiculous to put the ceiling under it.
quote:
But its ok for these Braves fans to do so right here and now?
Valuing a multiple player/prospect trade including young non-developed guys who may or may not get injured is not the same thing as valuing somebody's comment that a guy isn't very good after he leads the MLB in ERA through 8 starts.
How wrong anybody who said Shelby Miller won't good is still yet to be decided. But its an all but certainty they are wrong based on the incredible numbers he's had through an 8 game sample size.
Even if they weren't wrong the statements can be asinine if they weren't made with proper evidence. It is by no means hypocritical.
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