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re: Is Randy Johnson the most dominant pitcher of the live ball era?
Posted on 7/28/15 at 6:46 pm to cubsfan5150
Posted on 7/28/15 at 6:46 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
than any pitcher ever. I haven't seen one faster.
Chapman first 2-3 years I think he threw harder
Of course he couldn't hit the strike zone consistently with it until he toned it down. Still hitting 97+ though
0
Posted on 7/28/15 at 7:45 pm to Keys Open Doors
yes
Posted on 7/28/15 at 9:19 pm to Hiphopanonymous
Pedro
No question
No question
Posted on 7/28/15 at 10:14 pm to Jamohn
quote:
I have this argument every few months but my position never changes. Pedro's prime is the GOAT prime. His numbers are utterly ridiculous. He had the greatest stuff of all time with FOUR out pitches. He did it in the heart of the steroid era, in the AL with bloated, roided up DHs, in the toughest division in the majors, in the era where small hitters parks were being built every year, and in an era where the strikezone looked like a shoebox.
Pedro in '99-'00 was the perfect pitcher.
This is a great post. I disagree that the AL East was the toughest in baseball in the time Pedro was there though. They had the best team, but top to bottom the AL West was better imo
Posted on 7/28/15 at 10:36 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Maddux in the early to mid-90's was easily the GOAT
#Bravesfan
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:11 pm to FootballNostradamus
Yeah that's such a ridiculous opinion it can only be attributed to bias.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:20 pm to Hiphopanonymous
Sandy Koufax's 4 years from 1963-1966 were just ridiculous. LINK
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:33 pm to Hiphopanonymous
Pedro had two years that might have been the greatest of all time
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:52 pm to 504Voodoo
quote:
Pedro had two years that might have been the greatest of all time
Maddux 94-95: 35 Wins, 1.60 ERA, 337 Ks, 265 ERA+, 7.4 K/9
Martinez 99-00: 41 Wins, 1.90 ERA, 597 Ks, 265 ERA+, 12.5 K/9
Virtually identical but I'd give Maddux the edge because he was more efficient. Plus he hit and was a great fielder.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 7:16 am to motorbreath
quote:
Maddux 94-95: 35 Wins, 1.60 ERA, 337 Ks, 265 ERA+, 7.4 K/9
Martinez 99-00: 41 Wins, 1.90 ERA, 597 Ks, 265 ERA+, 12.5 K/9
Virtually identical but I'd give Maddux the edge because he was more efficient. Plus he hit and was a great fielder.
Id give Pedro the edge because he did it in the AL and faced the DH 3-5 times a game
Posted on 7/29/15 at 7:41 am to motorbreath
Koufax 65-66: 53 Wins, 2 Saves, 1.89 ERA, 699 Ks. Koufax had to hang it up after 1966 at the age of 30 due to arthritis.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 7:46 am to goldenbadger08
quote:
Just like saying if the season was not shortened the Expos could have won the Series.
As an Expos fan do not remind me of this.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:13 am to Poodlebrain
If we are including Koufax he had a better 4 year run the anyone in history, easily.
His season average from 1963-1966
24-7
1.86 ERA
307 strikeouts
65 walks
298 innings
22 complete games
7 shutouts
His season average from 1963-1966
24-7
1.86 ERA
307 strikeouts
65 walks
298 innings
22 complete games
7 shutouts
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:57 am to Hiphopanonymous
I've spoken with two HOF pitchers separately - Don Sutton and Steve Carlton - and they both told me the same thing: in their opinion, Koufax was the greatest ever. Sutton told me that at times in the Dodger dugout, they were amazed that anybody could even foul a pitch off Koufax. And this from a guy who also pitched in rotations with Ryan and Drysdale.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 9:59 am
Posted on 7/29/15 at 10:07 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
I would put him 3rd
Yeah.
1. Koufax
2. Lefty Grove
3. Johnson (with Warren Spahn at 3A)
Posted on 7/29/15 at 10:18 am to Hiphopanonymous
Hard to go against the guy with the most no-no's (Ryan). Nolan and the Big Unit are the two guys on this list that literally had no-hitter potential every time they toed the rubber.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 10:19 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Koufax
Is kinda overrated.
I would easily take Maddux, Pedro, or Randy Johnson over him
Posted on 7/29/15 at 10:32 am to theunknownknight
quote:
If we are including Koufax he had a better 4 year run the anyone in history, easily.
His season average from 1963-1966
24-7
1.86 ERA
307 strikeouts
65 walks
298 innings
22 complete games
7 shutouts
Averaged an ERA+ of 172 with a high of 190, which was also Koufax's career high. In comparison, Pedro had 5 seasons with an ERA+ of over 200.
Pedro had an average ERA+ of 213 from 1997 to 2003. That destroys Koufax's best 4 year average
And Pedro had a 5 year average that is a lot better than that. From 1999 to 2003, he had an average ERA+ of 231
And again, Pedro did all this in the height of the steroid area, in the AL, in a hitter's park
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 10:33 am
Posted on 7/29/15 at 10:49 am to SPEEDY
Koufax was AVERAGING 22 complete games a season. He pitched in an era where he HAD to pitch - so yeah his advanced metrics are a little lower - but his ERA being at 1.86 for those 4 seasons even when pitching that much is pretty insane.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:03 pm to SPEEDY
The raw numbers for the ERA+ are meaningless without knowing what the mean and standard deviations are for a given year. And they are useless for comparing different years. It is possible that Koufax's ERA+ was more standard deviations from the mean than Martinez's despite being a lower raw number.
Koufax started every 4 days. Martinez pitched every 5 days. Martinez never came close to Koufax in innings pitched in a season. Martinez didn't throw 4 no hitters. Martinez's best seasons for complete games was 13, and he never threw more than 4 shutouts. From 1963-1966 Koufax threw at least 15 complete games every season, and no less than 5 shut outs. Koufax was the unanimous Cy Young Award winner in 1963, 1965 and 1966, and he finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting in 1964 despite being injured and missing about 1/3 of the season. When Koufax played there was only one Cy Young Award for the Major Leagues, there weren't separate awards for the National and American Leagues.
Koufax started every 4 days. Martinez pitched every 5 days. Martinez never came close to Koufax in innings pitched in a season. Martinez didn't throw 4 no hitters. Martinez's best seasons for complete games was 13, and he never threw more than 4 shutouts. From 1963-1966 Koufax threw at least 15 complete games every season, and no less than 5 shut outs. Koufax was the unanimous Cy Young Award winner in 1963, 1965 and 1966, and he finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting in 1964 despite being injured and missing about 1/3 of the season. When Koufax played there was only one Cy Young Award for the Major Leagues, there weren't separate awards for the National and American Leagues.
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