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re: Is Carlos Beltran a Hall of Famer?
Posted on 8/30/15 at 5:57 pm to LSU82BILL
Posted on 8/30/15 at 5:57 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:
Yeah.....I meant greatest player. It's always Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Cobb....the guys with 600 HRs and 3,000 hits.
Yeah... I always hear Ted Williams brought up before Aaron and definitely before Cobb.
2
Posted on 8/30/15 at 5:59 pm to Jcorye1
I actually sorta see what he's saying.
There was a best hitter ever thread a couple of weeks or so ago. And it was basically all Bonds vs Ruth, and went a couple or even a few pages before a poster brought up Ted Williams.
There was a best hitter ever thread a couple of weeks or so ago. And it was basically all Bonds vs Ruth, and went a couple or even a few pages before a poster brought up Ted Williams.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 6:00 pm to Jcorye1
I don't I usually hear Ruth, Mays, Bonds, Cobb, and Aaron before Williams. Most of that is because of the years that Williams gave up to the military, if he doesn't do that he is easily 600+ home runs and 3000+ hits. Although he did play till he was 42.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 6:01 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Switch hitting doesn't make a hitters accomplishments more impressive.
you're not in touch with reality if you think that.
Well dude I played professionally and I was a switch hitter. Switch hitting is a lot easier than not getting the jelly legs when a ball is coming at your head 95 MPH and you need to wait that fraction of a second to determine if it is a fastball or a curve ball.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 6:01 pm to LSU82BILL
So Mike Stanton post on Tigerdroppings.... 
Posted on 8/30/15 at 6:31 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
Well, BR has them basically identical. Fangraphs has Beltran 3.1 higher.
I know. That is why they said they use different formulas.
quote:
So something has to give.
Call it bWAR and fWAR. To me, a difference of 3.1 WAR over an entire 15 year career is pretty marginal. Telling me one player has a 68 career WAR and the other is 62 career WAR is not enough for me to say that the 68 is better.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 7:10 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Can we get back to PJ saying Kenny Lofton is the second greatest leadoff hitter of all time? Sure fire HOF?
You know the guy who got 3.2% in 2013.
You know the guy who got 3.2% in 2013.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 7:20 pm to LSU82BILL
what is your name, let me look up your splits
Posted on 8/30/15 at 7:40 pm to lsu31always
quote:
Can we get back to PJ saying Kenny Lofton is the second greatest leadoff hitter of all time? Sure fire HOF?
Is it stupid, yeah. But is it one of the top 100 stupidest things PJ has said about baseball? No.
This post was edited on 8/30/15 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 8/30/15 at 7:53 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
To me, a difference of 3.1 WAR over an entire 15 year career is pretty marginal.
It's about 18 places on their all-time list.
quote:
Telling me one player has a 68 career WAR and the other is 62 career WAR is not enough for me to say that the 68 is better.
Beltran has a career OPS 50 points higher. He's going to finish with more hits, doubles, homers, XBH, walks, and maybe more runs too. Lofton stole more bases, but Beltran hits in the middle of the lineup; so his role wasn't to run as much. He has a higher career stolen base percentage than Lofton.
Beltran has 9 seasons with an OPS over .900. Lofton had 1. Of course, Lofton wasn't a power guy.
I would definitely say that Beltran is a better offensive player than Lofton. Can Lofton's defensive advantage make up for that?
This post was edited on 8/30/15 at 7:55 pm
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:02 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
Beltran has a career OPS 50 points higher. He's going to finish with more hits, doubles, homers, XBH, walks, and maybe more runs too. Lofton stole more bases, but Beltran hits in the middle of the lineup; so his role wasn't to run as much. He has a higher career stolen base percentage than Lofton.
Beltran has 9 seasons with an OPS over .900. Lofton had 1. Of course, Lofton wasn't a power guy.
All of tells me so much about the two than just WAR. WAR is just one stat with value, but it has a lot of flaws.
I prefer Beltran overall, but it is personal preference. I trust offensive numbers more, so I have trouble trusting the difference between Beltran's and Lofton's defense according to WAR. Obviously, Lofton is the way, way better defender.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:21 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Y'all are arguing stats but the real question is did he play well enough long enough for a high enough profile club so that he'll have the right people lobbying for him?
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:32 pm to Lester Earl
So are you saying that a switch hitter with a .281 lifetime average is more valuable than a right handed hitter who has a .295 lifetime average?
Is he more valuable than a right handed hitter with an identical .281 lifetime average?
Is he more valuable than a right handed hitter with an identical .281 lifetime average?
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:36 pm to slackster
Nah. .281 is just not good enough these days. Hall of Very Good.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:39 pm to LSUtoOmaha
quote:
Nah. .281 is just not good enough these days. Hall of Very Good.
Signed,
Craig Biggio
.281 career hitter
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:46 pm to slackster
Where did I say that? Why don't you quote the part in which you are contending?
This post was edited on 8/30/15 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 8/30/15 at 8:54 pm to slackster
A .281 switch hitter is probably more valuable than a .281 righty (if we assume all else equal) because it always give the hitter a platoon advantage and the manager more flexibility in constructing his lineups.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 9:09 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
A .281 switch hitter is probably more valuable than a .281 righty (if we assume all else equal) because it always give the hitter a platoon advantage and the manager more flexibility in constructing his lineups.
Agreed, but that is basically the end of it IMO. You can't give a switch hitter the nod over a guy with better stats simply because he is a switch hitter. The advantages of hitting from both sides of the plate are already evident in Beltran's stats.
Additionally, when it comes to the HOF, none of these guys should be a liability against LHP in the first place. It's not like were talking about taking Beltran or a guy who hits .230 vs LHP.
Posted on 8/30/15 at 9:11 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Where did I say that? Why don't you quote the part in which you are contending?
You didn't say that specifically, I'm posing the question. How much more credit should a switch hitter get past his numbers alone, specifically as it pertains to his HOF resume?
Posted on 8/30/15 at 9:15 pm to slackster
I was just speaking in terms of hidden value.
As far as how much credit , I'm not talking tons. But you get a guy like Beltran who will have 400HR, stole bases, and was a post season monster. Being a switch hitter may give him an extra boost since he'll likely be on the cusp.
As far as how much credit , I'm not talking tons. But you get a guy like Beltran who will have 400HR, stole bases, and was a post season monster. Being a switch hitter may give him an extra boost since he'll likely be on the cusp.
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