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The Seaward
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2006
8588 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

There isn't even a conversation to be had. This is a one man race


I don’t agree. Now Mike Trout last year was a clear one man race, yet there were some Astros fans acting like that race was a toss up or Altuve got shafted.


Jester
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
24873 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
Let me guess: Astros fan?


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31
shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
56581 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Judge had a higher OBP, slugging, and scored more runs than Altuve. He had better park-adjusted numbers than Altuve. A better defender according to the metrics. He had a higher WAR than Altuve, according to Fangraphs. More weighted runs created.

Judge led the league in homers, walks, runs, 2nd in RBI, etc, etc. etc
Hell, based on this what's the argument for Altuve over Judge?


Jester
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
24873 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Hell, based on this what's the argument for Altuve over Judge?



He plays for the Astros. That's their main reasoning.


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73
Adam Banks
Houston Astros Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
12505 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
Higher average less ks didn't spend 1/3 of the season being sub replacement player more steals. If you put any weight into stats indicating clutch play judge is terrible in the clutch while altuve is very good. Altuve has a higher war using the superior baseball reference war.

Over 1/3 of the time judge strikes out. 1/3 of the season judge was sub replacement


BenDover
Member since Jul 2010
4276 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Higher average less ks didn't spend 1/3 of the season being sub replacement player more steals. If you put any weight into stats indicating clutch play judge is terrible in the clutch while altuve is very good. Altuve has a higher war using the superior baseball reference war.

Over 1/3 of the time judge strikes out. 1/3 of the season judge was sub replacement


Batting average should go the way that "wins" for pitchers go -- it's a decent stat, but OBP and OPS are much more telling factors, and Judge was better in both areas. The part about Judge playing poorly for 1/3 of the season is a knock on him, but the fact that he played like a HOF for the other 2/3 of the season is more impactful.

With that being said, I don't think you could go wrong either way between Altuve and Judge. As someone else said, the only wrong answer is to say one of the two is a slam-dunk pick over the other.

In the end I think the voters will give the award to Judge because he plays in the media capital and is the more flashy player but it would be cool to see the "little guy" win it.
This post was edited on 10/6 at 9:12 am


High C
Houston Astros Fan
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
17558 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Astrotards claiming that it would be a "travesty" or that they'd never respect the MVP award again if Judge wins.




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31
Adam Banks
Houston Astros Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
12505 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

OBP



Oh. Didn't know a walk could advance a guy from 1st to 3rd. Silly me.


OPS is better I agree but altuves ops was much more consistent over the course of the season.

I said in the other thread that I think judge wins it. He's also not a bad pick but if I were voting the 1/3 of the season was so bad that with another legitimate contender I'd vote for the person who did it all season.
This post was edited on 10/6 at 9:29 am


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11
shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
56581 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

With that being said, I don't think you could go wrong either way between Altuve and Judge. As someone else said, the only wrong answer is to say one of the two is a slam-dunk pick over the other.

Pretty much this.

quote:

The part about Judge playing poorly for 1/3 of the season is a knock on him, but the fact that he played like a HOF for the other 2/3 of the season is more impactful.
Yea, if you bring up the 1/3 of the season thing, is valid. But then you're basically conceding that Judge was much, much better for the other 2/3 of the season, so you have to account for that. There's definitely points for consistency though, I get that.


Byron Bojangles III
Butler Fan
Member since Nov 2012
44059 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
It's baseball who cares


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TTownTiger
Houston Astros Fan
Austin
Member since Oct 2007
4187 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
It comes down to if voters prefer counting stats or clutchness & consistency. Judge finished higher in HRs, RBIs, SLG, OPS etc... Well, he should! He is a middle of the order power hitter. That is specifically his game. He should finish higher than Altuve in every power category in every single year of his career or else he is doing something wrong. But if thats what you give MVP awards to, a non traditional power hitter will never be able to win the award. Should there not be other intangibles considered? Thats what it will come down to.

And of course I am biased, but a middle infielder who:
quote:

There is not a more consistent player in all parts of the game — offense, defense, durability — than Altuve, who will finish the season with a league-leading batting average of over .340, 32-plus stolen bases and a .960-plus OPS, a feat accomplished by only five other players in American League history: Paul Molitor, George Sisler, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Shoeless Joe Jackson. Altuve hit .290 or more every month of the season, hit .347 before the All-Star break and .349 after; .343 with a .962 OPS versus lefties and .349 with a .970 OPS against righties, and probably most significant in this day and age of countless injuries in baseball, has never spent a day on the disabled list. Altuve also leads the majors in clutch (close and late situations) hitting (presently .448) with a 1.209 OPS and .362 from the seventh inning on and .342 with two outs.


Clutch
This post was edited on 10/6 at 9:55 am


shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
56581 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

But if thats what you give MVP awards to, a non traditional power hitter will never be able to win the award. Should there not be other intangibles considered?
For me, no not really to intangibles.

There's certain status I think are valuable. Whether it's a power hitter or not, those are the ones I'd lean towards when seeing who is the best player in a league.

That being said, I do think it's fairly close, but I also think Judge seemingly has the edge.

quote:

Clutch
That's always a tricky one in how to evaluate. You can't really discount or ignore that Altuve was rather obviously bigger in those clutch spots. But I also don't think clutch is something you can replicate over and over, it's largely random. But again, even being random doesn't take away from the fact that Altuve still was much better, so as I said, it's tough to figure out how to value that in this discussion for me.


Waldeaux24
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2013
216 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
I think what is being lost in all of this is who gives their team a better chance to win. Or rather, Who is more valuable to their team. With Springer and Correa missing extended time, the Astros kept winning, in large part to Altuve being himself all year long. Judge is a great player and easily is rookie of the year, but team success ought to also be taken into account. Something should be said for Altuve helping his team rout their division as opposed to Judge helping his team cling to a Wild Card. (Yes, I know Trout won his while the Angels were basement dwellers)


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30
High C
Houston Astros Fan
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
17558 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Clutch


quote:

That's always a tricky one in how to evaluate.


Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR


WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
#HKIC
Member since Oct 2012
80990 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

It comes down to if voters prefer counting stats or clutchness & consistency.


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00
WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
#HKIC
Member since Oct 2012
80990 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Mike Trout
should still win this year


shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
56581 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR
Also tricky to evaluate...sample size.


Adam Banks
Houston Astros Fan
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
12505 posts
 Online 

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

Mike Trout should still win this year


Using the arguments people give for judge then yes he definitely should. Higher slugging percentage higher OBP higher batting average more steals higher WRC+ in a more premium outfield position.


If people think Judge over Altuve then they should have Trout over Judge. Also trouts injury Hurt his team in a smaller part of the season than Judges Awful play
This post was edited on 10/6 at 10:36 am


The Seaward
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2006
8588 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
If he would have played 150+ games, he likely would have ran away with it. As is I can’t see having him get it over Judge or Altuve.


LSUBoo
Bowling Green Fan
None. None More Black.
Member since Mar 2006
71642 posts

re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
quote:

quote:

Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR

Also tricky to evaluate...sample size.


Also irrelevant, because votes are already cast.


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