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Message
re: Herbie just slobber knockered all over what's his name at ND
Posted on 11/28/12 at 10:52 am to petar
Posted on 11/28/12 at 10:52 am to petar
quote:
te'o seems like the obvious choice
I just can't believe there are people out there that can actually believe this. Te'o has zero business even sniffing an invite to New York.
1
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:00 am to RandySavage
He doesn't deserve to be invited? That's a new one. He has 100+ tackles, 8 turnovers, and leader of the #1 team in the country and the #1 (or #2?) defense in the country.
If you flipped him to offense and he were a QB with very good to exceptional stats (which his are for a ILB), and he were on an undefeated #1 team, he'd be a lock to win the award.
He deserves to be there, especially in a down year.
I'm trying to discern whether the backlash against Te'o is because he plays defense or because he plays for ND.
If you flipped him to offense and he were a QB with very good to exceptional stats (which his are for a ILB), and he were on an undefeated #1 team, he'd be a lock to win the award.
He deserves to be there, especially in a down year.
I'm trying to discern whether the backlash against Te'o is because he plays defense or because he plays for ND.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:07 am to bayoujd
quote:
I'm trying to discern whether the backlash against Te'o is because he plays defense or because he plays for ND.
As I stated earlier in the thread. I like Te'o a lot. I also respect ND and am far from a ND hater. The only argument in his favor is that it is indeed a down year. However, whatever the award is for "best player", "MVP", "most outstanding" he is none of those things. He's not even the best LB.
I'm not against defensive players winning it, I wanted Woodson to win over Manning and Suh to win the year he was up for it. But if you are going to win it as a defensive player you better be something truly special and Te'o just isn't that. He's a very good linebacker but there are Manti Te'o's every year in college football.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:08 am to RandySavage
quote:
there are Manti Te'o's every year in college football.
TIL top 5 NFL draft projected LBs are the norm across the country.
quote:
. I also respect ND and am far from a ND hater
riiiight...
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 11:10 am
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:10 am to bayoujd
quote:
leader of the #1 team in the country
Arguing about the Heisman is as close to pointless as you can get, but what does this have to do with being the outstanding player in CFB?
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:17 am to lsuroadie
quote:
Herbie just slobber knockered all over what's his name at ND
No one else caught that this is the wrong euphemism?
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:35 am to LSU316
I don't understand why there are so many Te'o haters on this board. Kid is the backbone of the only undefeated team left. If LSU had a MLB with 7 picks people would be losing their minds.
Give the kid the Heisman. He earned it.
Give the kid the Heisman. He earned it.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:37 am to ChemE in the OP
You do not have to hate Teo -- or ND -- to believe he does not deserve the Heisman Trophy
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:44 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I wanted Woodson to win over Manning and Suh to win the year he was up for it
Woodson's defensive stats (Woodson had a punt return TD in his last game against OSU, though he was the 7th best punt returner in the Big 10 that year): 42 tackles
1 sack
7 INTs
0 fumble recoveries
Te'o's stats:
103 tackles
1.5 sacks
7 INTs
1 fumble recovery
In other words, more than twice as many tackles, more sacks and tackles for losses, and more forced turnovers. But you're right - Woodson deserved to WIN the Heisman, and Te'o doesn't deserve to even be invited.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:47 pm to rocket31
quote:
The only reason people are clamoring so strongly for JFF is because he now plays in the SEC. IF he put up those numbers against Big12 competition, he would just have been a product of a "shitty defensive conference"
THIS
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:53 pm to rocket31
quote:
The only reason people are clamoring so strongly for JFF is because he now plays in the SEC. IF he put up those numbers against Big12 competition, he would just have been a product of a "shitty defensive conference"
well yeah, it makes it more impressive when he puts up crazy numbers in a conference with more good defenses.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 1:04 pm to ToesOnTheNose213
quote:
he would just have been a product of a "shitty defensive conference"
Correct but he DID it in the SEC. Big difference.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 1:09 pm to bayoujd
quote:
In other words, more than twice as many tackles, more sacks and tackles for losses, and more forced turnovers. But you're right - Woodson deserved to WIN the Heisman, and Te'o doesn't deserve to even be invited
The fact you are attempting to compare the tackles and sacks stats of a linebacker and a cornerback tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.
Full disclosure: I was like 14 or 15 (i.e. not that smart) when Woodson won the Heisman and didn't like Manning so there is some bias there. I don't know if I would have the same opinion today but I do remember that everytime I watched Michigan back then (which was often) Woodson was making huge plays and shutting down receivers. There was certainly no discussion over whether or not Woodson was the best defensive player or CB in the nation. That was obvious to anyone.
Te'o isn't even the best LB.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:07 pm to RandySavage
Re ESPN's agenda, the same wk that Te'o had 6 tackles in one game, Minter had his 20 against Fla. And he never got a word said bout him. Get ready for ESPN to shove the Irish down your throat for the next 40 days.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:18 pm to RandySavage
quote:
The fact you are attempting to compare the tackles and sacks stats of a linebacker and a cornerback tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.
The fact that you're ignoring that Te'o (as an ILB in a 3-4 defense) had the same number of INTs as Woodson (as a DB) tells me you are purposely ignoring the most important stat in this debate, don't you think?
Fyi, Andre Wadsworth was the best defensive player that year. Not Woodson.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:41 pm to bayoujd
quote:
Mathieu had far tougher competition last year than Te'o has this year.
If Mathieu had put up last year's numbers this year, he'd win in a landslide.
I agree with you completely. I'm just saying Mathieu's season was much better than Teo's.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 8:17 pm to bayoujd
quote:
more sacks and tackles for losses, and more forced turnovers.
1. Woodson (a CORNERBACK) had 0.5 less sacks than Te'O (a linebacker).
2. Woodson (a CORNERBACK) had 4.0 tackles for loss, 1.5 less than Te'O (a linebacker)
3. A fumble recovery is not a forced turnover. The teammate of his who forced the fumble is the one who forced the turnover.
4. Didn't Woodson return a punt for a touchdown and score two more that season? Doesn't Te'O have zero CAREER touchdowns?
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 8:20 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Also, take Te'O away from Notre Dame and they quite possibly still go undefeated. There isn't a single game in which he was the difference in the game. In fact, you could argue that he was completely out of position almost the entire Pittsburgh game and would have cost them that game had both the refs (missing 2 players wearing #2 on the same play) and the Pitt kicker not went full retard in overtime.
Take Manziel away from A&M and they're a 7-8 win team at best.
Take Manziel away from A&M and they're a 7-8 win team at best.
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