- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Hedge Bet for Florida to win National Championship.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 5:48 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 5:48 am
So I mentioned this in another thread, but now I've calculated it out, and I think there is some definite arbitrage on Florida. Before you start dismissing it, hear me out.
Florida controls their own destiny to win the SEC East. If they win out, they will be SEC champions and have beaten Florida State. With only 2 losses, they would be a pretty sure bet to get in to playoffs. Yet 5Dimes gives 1000/1 odds for them winning the national championship. This presents an opportunity for arbitrage(guaranteed profit) in taking Florida at 1000/1 and then betting against them until they lose. If, in the unlikely case, they never lose, all of your money lost will be less than the payout you get.
Ex: Put 100 on florida to win 1000/1. Payout is 100,000 if they win. Moneyline is Missouri +190 for this week so you put 53 on Missou. If Florida wins you are down 153 but bet is still alive. Next week, put 309 on Georgia-300(assuming this is the line). If Florida wins, you are down 461, but your bet is still alive.
I ran the numbers based on what I reasonably think the spreads will be and got 538/1 being the indifference point where hedging will net 0 dollars. That's a pretty massive arbitrage. Unfortunately, one that takes a huge payroll to exploit.
This is based on Missouri +190, Georgia-300, Vandy+360, South Carolina+140, Eastern Kentucky+1000, Florida St-600, SECW-200, Playoff 1-200, BCSNCG-200.
You must consider that it doesn't matter what the money line would be today. It matters what the money line would be at the time of any given game IF Florida runs the table up to that point. So while the SEC champion would be heavily favored over Florida today, they would not be overwhelming favorites if Florida proved themselves able to run the table against Mizzou, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida St. Also consider, the playoff games would likely not be against Florida St or an SEC team since they will have knocked them both out. So playoffs would probably be Baylor, Oregon, Mich St, etc. A little better odds than against Florida St or Alabama.
If, in the overwhelmingly likely case they prove themselves not good enough to run the table and lose a game, it doesn't matter what the spreads are. You have already made you're money back plus a profit and are done betting Florida games.
I don't have the bankroll to hedge all that, but if I can figure out how to deposit on 5dimes from Germany(tried yesterday with no success), I'm putting $20 on Florida. 1000/1 is underpriced, regardless of how mediocre Florida is.
Florida controls their own destiny to win the SEC East. If they win out, they will be SEC champions and have beaten Florida State. With only 2 losses, they would be a pretty sure bet to get in to playoffs. Yet 5Dimes gives 1000/1 odds for them winning the national championship. This presents an opportunity for arbitrage(guaranteed profit) in taking Florida at 1000/1 and then betting against them until they lose. If, in the unlikely case, they never lose, all of your money lost will be less than the payout you get.
Ex: Put 100 on florida to win 1000/1. Payout is 100,000 if they win. Moneyline is Missouri +190 for this week so you put 53 on Missou. If Florida wins you are down 153 but bet is still alive. Next week, put 309 on Georgia-300(assuming this is the line). If Florida wins, you are down 461, but your bet is still alive.
I ran the numbers based on what I reasonably think the spreads will be and got 538/1 being the indifference point where hedging will net 0 dollars. That's a pretty massive arbitrage. Unfortunately, one that takes a huge payroll to exploit.
This is based on Missouri +190, Georgia-300, Vandy+360, South Carolina+140, Eastern Kentucky+1000, Florida St-600, SECW-200, Playoff 1-200, BCSNCG-200.
You must consider that it doesn't matter what the money line would be today. It matters what the money line would be at the time of any given game IF Florida runs the table up to that point. So while the SEC champion would be heavily favored over Florida today, they would not be overwhelming favorites if Florida proved themselves able to run the table against Mizzou, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida St. Also consider, the playoff games would likely not be against Florida St or an SEC team since they will have knocked them both out. So playoffs would probably be Baylor, Oregon, Mich St, etc. A little better odds than against Florida St or Alabama.
If, in the overwhelmingly likely case they prove themselves not good enough to run the table and lose a game, it doesn't matter what the spreads are. You have already made you're money back plus a profit and are done betting Florida games.
I don't have the bankroll to hedge all that, but if I can figure out how to deposit on 5dimes from Germany(tried yesterday with no success), I'm putting $20 on Florida. 1000/1 is underpriced, regardless of how mediocre Florida is.
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 5:51 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 5:56 am to TheSexecutioner
I think it's pretty clever actually. As they win the moneylines should move more in your favor. It's basically an insurance policy against your original bet with minimal work. The only hitch is if a 2 loss will get in, which if they win out, I believe they will get in.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:04 am to Random LSU Hero
Exactly. The thing is, it would seem tough for a 2 loss to get in BUT, they would be SEC champions so you can't really send any other SEC team over them, and they will have just beaten Florida St, so you couldn't send Florida State over them.
Their 2 losses would be early and they would have probably just beaten the number 1 team in the country 2 weeks in a row. Add to that a win over top 10 Georgia, South Carolina, and Mizzou and the fact that they played Alabama this year. I just don't see any way they don't get in.
Even if there is a small chance, it would be possible to hedge against that.
Their 2 losses would be early and they would have probably just beaten the number 1 team in the country 2 weeks in a row. Add to that a win over top 10 Georgia, South Carolina, and Mizzou and the fact that they played Alabama this year. I just don't see any way they don't get in.
Even if there is a small chance, it would be possible to hedge against that.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:09 am to TheSexecutioner
I think another hitch is you would need FSU to win out until that game. And you would need LSU to accumulate as many wins as possible too. I think 1000 to 1 is great value tho. What if they lose another game...? Would you recoup your loss of the 100 in that one game? Lets say they lose the next game...
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:12 am to TheSexecutioner
Horrible idea based on anything other than math.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:13 am to TheSexecutioner
I wouldn't waste a dollar at million:one, you must not have seen the same game I did last week. They are terrible and will lose 4 more games
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:16 am to DaBeerz
quote:
I wouldn't waste a dollar at million:one, you must not have seen the same game I did last week. They are terrible and will lose 4 more games
Well, it wouldn't be a waste if you hedged. Because, you'd be betting against them too. You'd make money when they lose.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:17 am to TheSexecutioner
Good luck.
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 6:20 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:21 am to Random LSU Hero
quote:
I think another hitch is you would need FSU to win out until that game. And you would need LSU to accumulate as many wins as possible too. I think 1000 to 1 is great value tho. What if they lose another game...? Would you recoup your loss of the 100 in that one game? Lets say they lose the next game...
yes. Like I said, you would have 53 dollars on Missouri at +190(that is the money line). If Missou wins, you get 100.70. 70 cent profit. Obviously you could amend it to make more profit. In my scenario, you make 1 dollar in every scenario except for Florida winning it all where you make 50k+. You could amend it to make more guaranteed profit.
And I doubt Florida St needs to win out. But like I said, you could start hedging that if it really starts looking like an SEC team might not get in.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:27 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
you must not have seen the same game I did last week.
and to be honest, I didn't. I think that is what allows me to step back and realize that those odds are wrong. If any Florida fans had any kind of optimism and bet on them, 5Dimes would move that line with the quickness.
Other sports books have Florida at 90/1 and I've also seen 300ish/1. 1000/1 is just an undervalued line that they don't care enough to change because they aren't getting any money on it, IMO.
People have a perception bias of disregarding payout because they perceive an event as having 0 odds when that just isn't true. Florida is still a 6 point favorite over Missouri at home. They aren't good, but they aren't some mid-major either. There is some point where the odds are too high and 1000/1 falls into that.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 6:59 am to TheSexecutioner
This thread is fascinating.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:16 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Ex: Put 100 on florida to win 1000/1. Payout is 100,000 if they win. Moneyline is Missouri +190 for this week so you put 53 on Missou. If Florida wins you are down 153 but bet is still alive
sentence makes no sense
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:18 am to TheSexecutioner
What if they win all the regualar season games you bet against them and then lose the national title?
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:19 am to gamecocks22
quote:
What if they win all the regualar season games you bet against them and then lose the national title?
I would bet against them in the national title too. Well, I would if I employed this strategy. Like I said, I don't have the bankroll to pull it off. You would have to be willing to go down thousands of dollars.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:20 am to bbap
quote:
sentence makes no sense
Explain what doesn't make sense. If Florida wins, you lose the 53 dollars you put on Missouri to win. Plus, you already placed 100 on florida winning the national championship. Hence, you are down a total of 153. However, your bet of Florida winning the national championship and thus getting 100,000 dollars is still possible because Florida did not lose. What do you not understand?
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 7:23 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:22 am to TheSexecutioner
you are not down money that you have not lost. i mean thats gambling 101. use better verbiage.
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 7:23 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:26 am to bbap
fair enough. For the sake of illustrating it to people who are insistent that Florida has no chance of winning, I use the term "down" to mean the money that has actually come out of your pocket.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:28 am to TheSexecutioner
i hear ya. i just get bugged by when people try to talk gambling to me and use all the wrong terms. you can spot the phonies so quick.
i realize you aren't one of those people though because you put a lot of thought into this. and i cant seem to find a flaw in it. well thought out.
i realize you aren't one of those people though because you put a lot of thought into this. and i cant seem to find a flaw in it. well thought out.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 7:33 am to TheSexecutioner
i wish i understood wtf you were talking about cause it sounds convincing can somebody explain how the money line works?
also, what if they win 3 or 4 and you're down a few hundred? do you up the bet each week so that when/if they lose, it balances out? Im assuming so, that would make sense
also, what if they win 3 or 4 and you're down a few hundred? do you up the bet each week so that when/if they lose, it balances out? Im assuming so, that would make sense
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News