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motorbreath
New Orleans Saints Fan
Atlanta Braves Fan
Member since Jun 2004
5327 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class

quote:

Not by their vote and listening to Verducci and Russo speak. I think they honestly believe they're the caretakers of the game, not the public


I think you are misunderstanding them. These are people with a huge responsibility to elect the hall of fame members and they take it very seriously, as they should.

Also, Verducci and Russo are 2 of almost 600 BBWAA writers eligible to vote for the HOF.


sms151t
SMU Fan
Polos, Porsches, Ponies..PROBATION
Member since Aug 2009
30403 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
What do you see the HOF as? Is it a museum to tell history or is it a place to honor players?

We both know its not best of best anymore.


molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
27804 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
quote:

Steroids alone didn't. Smaller parks, more teams, tighter strike zones, tighter wound balls, shift in way game was played. You can reasonably argue that greenies affected games daily more than steroids. Plus it wasn't just hitters on steroids like the media wants to present.


respectfully but completely disagree

steroids made some good players into MVPs (like Ken Caminiti), or guys who sets new standards (40/40 club of Canseco) or made great players like Bonds otherworldly. They changed the ways that pitchers had to approach guys like Bonds and McGwire because there was no safe place in teh strike zone to throw them a pitch - accordingly their batting averages and walk totals as well as their power numbers skyrocketed. They restored Clemens from a washed up pitcher to a guy who absolutely dominated in his early 40s

you can talk about ballparks, balls being wound tight, special bats etc - but IMO all that is just rationalization with the intent of avoiding the obvious. There are tons of ways to cheat - but nothing comes close to what steroids/PEDs did to change performance in baseball


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motorbreath
New Orleans Saints Fan
Atlanta Braves Fan
Member since Jun 2004
5327 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
It is the best of the best but there is a criteria that has to be met.

quote:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.


This is open to interpretation and different writers will interpret it differently but I can honestly say i can't hold it against any writer who wants to keep Clemons out based on this or a writer who votes for Clemens.


Matisyeezy
Duke Fan
End of the bar, Drunk
Member since Feb 2012
12091 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
Kaline, Gossage, and other former players already in the Hall who are opposed to the stars of the modern era being inducted are liars or, at best, deceiving themselves. As other posters have said, there's a LONG history of "cheating" in baseball -- by that I mean players will jump upon things that give them a competitive advantage if they aren't explicitly outlawed or there's no real effort made to enforce the banning of these tactics.

Nearly every one of those old windbags would have jumped at the chance to pop a pill or inject a serum that would give them the ability to hit 500+ homeruns or still be clocked at 98 mph after 100 pitches. They utilized whatever they could back then, players today do the same. If you want to invoke the integrity clause, it means you have to turn a critical eye on some of the players already enshrined in the Hall. Unless you want to start kicking people out, you're ahead to let the next generation enter.

And frick those guys anyway. Without the Steroid Era many baseball teams would probably be in a lot more precarious financial shape than they are now. The ADHD generation isn't so big on baseball, or so it seems to me. Disclaimer: I'm a part of that generation


MintBerry Crunch
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1306 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
I think you mean greenies-->steroids as firearms-->guns


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rockchlkjayhku11
Georgia Fan
Cincinnati, OH
Member since Aug 2006
28349 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
quote:

Ty Cobb was a well known racist and uber prick

ty cobb wanted to play but none of us could stand the son of a bitch when he was alive, so we told him to stick it!


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Tmacelroy12
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Aug 2012
5489 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin


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tduecen
Tulane Fan
The internet
Member since Nov 2006
111151 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
Andre Dawson weighs in:
quote:

“The thing is, I played a long time in the majors, and a couple more in the minors, and I didn’t play with that many Hall of Fame-caliber ballplayers,” Dawson said. “I didn’t play against more than a few Hall of Famers.”

“I’m mad about what they did to the game. I think of Hank (Aaron) and Willie (Mays) and Mickey (Mantle), it makes me really angry,” Dawson said. “We worked really, really hard to get to a certain level. They did it with drugs.”
This post was edited on 1/13 at 7:49 pm


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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39097 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
quote:

Nearly every one of those old windbags would have jumped at the chance to pop a pill or inject a serum that would give them the ability to hit 500+ homeruns or still be clocked at 98 mph after 100 pitches. They utilized whatever they could back then, players today do the same. If you want to invoke the integrity clause, it means you have to turn a critical eye on some of the players already enshrined in the Hall. Unless you want to start kicking people out, you're ahead to let the next generation enter.


Totally agree.


Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
39097 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
quote:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.


The character clause and using it to not vote a "steroids guy" vs someone like Tim Raines is a joke. Just like lots of the BB HOF voters are a joke.

Raines just got 52%.
McGwire got 16%
Sosa 12%
Palmerio 8%

And the justification was character?

Raines personally came out and said he used to slide on his stomach to keep from breaking glass or plastic cocaine containers he kept in his back pocket during games. So, it shows higher character to do lines of coke and tweek out during games than steriods?

Makes sense.


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tduecen
Tulane Fan
The internet
Member since Nov 2006
111151 posts

re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
I keep laughing at those borderline guys who feel the need to weigh in on this topic


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