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Message
re: Hall of Famers Respond About this years non-class
Posted on 1/10/13 at 3:56 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 1/10/13 at 3:56 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Issues off the field should have no bearing on whether or not a player makes the Hall of Fame. Cheating, however, should not be rewarded. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, McGwire and others like them do not belong in the Hall. I know a lot of people will disagree but I don't care. You don't put known juicers in Cooperstown.
That opens Pandora's box. How do you know for sure? Do you go back and retroactively remove past inductees?
1
Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:10 pm to Srbtiger06
Out of curosity is there anyone in the HOF that was caught using a corked bat during a game?
Posted on 1/10/13 at 5:01 pm to tduecen
quote:
Cheating has been around in baseball for as long as the game has been played. Different era's used different techniques to cheat.
Ty Cobb shaved his spikes and always went high
Pitchers have used spit balls, sandpaper, and petroleum jelly
Hitters have corked their bats
Players have stolen the catchers signs
People used amphetamines over the years and all
I agree with that - but I do think that PED use has been a much more effective way of cheating than anything that came before it
Maris' record stands for decades and is then broken repeatedly by three guys (Sosa, McGwire, Bonds) that we all know were cheating - the records do lose their value when the cheating so dramatically affects the competitive outcomes.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 5:19 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Out of curosity is there anyone in the HOF that was caught using a corked bat during a game?
Off the top of my head, no. There are accusations of other drugs being taken though. Especially in the 60s with amphetamines and the 80s with coke. The only difference now is that we CAN catch them. What big names have been caught though?
Posted on 1/10/13 at 6:22 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
The only difference now is that we CAN catch them. What big names have been caught though?
Bonds, Arod, Manny, Palmeiro have all failed tests. McGwire admitted it.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 7:26 pm to tduecen
These are the same old timer douche bags that are mad that land lines are going away.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 9:51 pm to tigerpimpbot
Steroids are completely different than greenies or doctoring a baseball. Greenies increase your focus and stamina while steroids physiologically change the body and helps players do things they were never capable of doing before.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 9:55 pm to motorbreath
What da hell?
This post was edited on 1/10/13 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 1/10/13 at 9:59 pm to sms151t
Greenies are to firearms as steroids are to nuclear weapons.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:02 pm to motorbreath
Umm okay, you take a greenie you get auto boost you take a steroid you still have to work out for it to really benefit you.
In long term you're correct but for what the greenies were used for they were more damaging to game and the writers are hypocrites.
I mean did they punish Molitor for the coke trials?
In long term you're correct but for what the greenies were used for they were more damaging to game and the writers are hypocrites.
I mean did they punish Molitor for the coke trials?
This post was edited on 1/10/13 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:24 pm to sms151t
Is there any doubt steroids inflated statistics so much more than greenies?
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:29 pm to motorbreath
Steroids alone didn't. Smaller parks, more teams, tighter strike zones, tighter wound balls, shift in way game was played. You can reasonably argue that greenies affected games daily more than steroids. Plus it wasn't just hitters on steroids like the media wants to present.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:37 pm to sms151t
quote:
Plus it wasn't just hitters on steroids like the media wants to present.
Gagne was juiced up like a mofo with the dodgers.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:39 pm to sms151t
I agree that plenty of pitchers were using too. The smaller parks etc. is a factor overall but not much. Also I'm only saying that steroids had a much greater impact on the game(obvious IMO) but I'm still torn over bonds and Clemens getting in. I wouldn't vote Sosa or McGwire in tho but that's just because I don't think they're HOF worthy, regardless of steroid use because they hit home runs and did virtually nothing else.
This post was edited on 1/10/13 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:49 pm to motorbreath
I respect your opinion. But a BBWAA member wouldn't. That to me raises more flags than anything.
To me the HOF is a museum dedicated to telling history of game and you include best players and most influental players of eras. Not best stat I make up and become a numbers geek.
Is Jim Rice or Bert Blyleven really the best of the best? Or are they guys who played well for a period and got stats. It's tricky, but important argument.
To me the HOF is a museum dedicated to telling history of game and you include best players and most influental players of eras. Not best stat I make up and become a numbers geek.
Is Jim Rice or Bert Blyleven really the best of the best? Or are they guys who played well for a period and got stats. It's tricky, but important argument.
Posted on 1/10/13 at 10:54 pm to tduecen
quote:
Hall of Fame pitcher Juan Marichal doesn't see it that way. He thinks Bonds, Clemens and Sosa belong in Cooperstown.
"I think that they have been unfair to guys who were never found guilty of anything," Marichal said. "Their stats define them as immortals. That's the reality and that cannot be denied."
Juan is an absolutely wonderful person. Great guy to talk too. I 100% agree with him
Posted on 1/10/13 at 11:00 pm to sms151t
quote:
I respect your opinion. But a BBWAA member wouldn't. That to me raises more flags than anything.
BBWAA writers are a large group and just as split on these issues as fans. If the fans voted nobody would have got in this year either.
This post was edited on 1/10/13 at 11:04 pm
Posted on 1/10/13 at 11:07 pm to motorbreath
Not by their vote and listening to Verducci and Russo speak. I think they honestly believe they're the caretakers of the game, not the public. The public 99.9% of time is correct when deciding what's best for game. Also, the guy who listens everyday on radio or watches on tv is no less informed than the writer about baseball. I value that persons opinion about the game moreso than the number cruncher pure metric guy.
Again that's my approach may not be right but it may be.
ETA: this argument alone makes baseball what it is. 5 guys can see same play describe it accurately 5 ways and all be right and wrong about the play.
Again that's my approach may not be right but it may be.
ETA: this argument alone makes baseball what it is. 5 guys can see same play describe it accurately 5 ways and all be right and wrong about the play.
This post was edited on 1/10/13 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 1/10/13 at 11:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:what about speed freaks?
You don't put known juicers in Cooperstown.
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