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re: Better coaching job, Spurrier or Snyder?
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:44 pm to TigerBait1127
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:44 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Because of all the national titles yall won before him.
Clearly didn't meet expectations
Urban won more in his first 4 years than Spurrier did his entire 12.
1
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:44 pm to RTR America
True, but you're largely bound by your pipeline. That pipeline runs a lot deeper in SC and Florida vs anywhere in the Midwest.
I don't think it's a fair or even reasonable comparison, but recruiting varys so much by geography that it plays a major role in the perception of achievement based on talent level.
I don't think it's a fair or even reasonable comparison, but recruiting varys so much by geography that it plays a major role in the perception of achievement based on talent level.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:44 pm to RTR America
quote:
Recruiting is a part of coaching
It falls under the umbrella of the head coach's responsibilities, but it is not "coaching".
If you wanted to ask who was the better recruiter, it was Spurrier. He landed far more talented players than Snyder. The coaching element though, that goes to Snyder.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:47 pm to LSUShock
quote:
I don't think it's a fair or even reasonable comparison, but recruiting varys so much by geography that it plays a major role in the perception of achievement based on talent level.
It's not a fair comparison. Put Spurrier up against someone more on his level with the same advantages (recruiting pipelines, facilities, supporters, etc.) and then make your comparisons.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:50 pm to RTR America
I mean, people rave about Orgeron's recruiting abilities, but the dude didn't do shite at Ole Miss. That doesn't make him a terrible coach or take away from his ability to recruit, but it's what you do with the talent you have that ultimately matters.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:51 pm to UnAnon
Manhattan, Kansas.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:52 pm to harry coleman beast
quote:
Manhattan, Kansas.
I'm going to open a Raising Canes there someday and make billions.
Billions.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 11:58 pm to brad8504
quote:
If you wanted to ask who was the better recruiter, it was Spurrier. He landed far more talented players than Snyder. The coaching element though, that goes to Snyder.
While Snyder may be recruiting lower ranked guys he is still likely looking for guys that fit a system he likes to use.
Should Saban and Urban be downgraded in the coaching hierarchy because they recruit elite level players?
Is Coach K's most recent title less of an accomplishment compared to some previously because he had 3 first round draft picks?
I'm just saying I hate the way people use it as some sort of differentiator when it is all a part of the job.
No one has ever used it the other way around which is always odd. So give me Spurrier because I will likely have a better chance at winning a national title and conference championships then.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 12:01 am to brad8504
quote:
I mean, people rave about Orgeron's recruiting abilities, but the dude didn't do shite at Ole Miss. That doesn't make him a terrible coach or take away from his ability to recruit, but it's what you do with the talent you have that ultimately matters.
Or it all plays a part of being a HC, hence why the best ones either recruit high level talent or find ways to recruit guys that fit a specific system.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 12:14 am to RTR America
quote:
While Snyder may be recruiting lower ranked guys he is still likely looking for guys that fit a system he likes to use.
Okay, so this basically nullifies the recruiting argument anyway, because star ratings and all of that doesn't really matter to begin with. They both recruited the players they wanted for their respective systems and made it work. The fact is, I don't think many people will argue that Spurrier had better talent on his rosters.
quote:
Should Saban and Urban be downgraded in the coaching hierarchy because they recruit elite level players?
No, but they both inherited much better programs, regardless of the shape they were in when they arrived. Snyder took a team on the verge of dropping football altogether and turned it into a formidable contender in a premier conference.
quote:
Is Coach K's most recent title less of an accomplishment compared to some previously because he had 3 first round draft picks?
I'm just saying I hate the way people use it as some sort of differentiator when it is all a part of the job.
No one has ever used it the other way around which is always odd. So give me Spurrier because I will likely have a better chance at winning a national title and conference championships then.
Okay, then let's go one step further. If you want to get down to it, Snyder did more for one school and the city of the school than any other coach in America has done for his respective school or city. Period.
Without the success of the football program, the school's enrollment wouldn't be what it is; the academics wouldn't be where they are; the facilities for both athletics and education wouldn't be anything special; the city itself would have never grown into what it is. The football program's success garnered attention for the city and the school. The athletics department is in much better shape because of what Snyder has been able to accomplish. A few years ago, K-State won conference titles in football, basketball, and baseball in the same year. Those programs are in a position to do well because the resources available to them are a direct result of the success of the football program. Every coach on campus has openly mentioned this and their praise for Snyder is high; not just for his accomplishments on the field, but for what he has enabled for the rest of the athletic department, the university, and the community.
Did Spurrier do all of that in Durham, Gainesville, or Columbia? No.
I mean, if you're going to count every little thing that falls under the umbrella of coaching responsibilities, then let's go ahead and include everything else that coaches contribute to.
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 12:25 am
Posted on 10/13/15 at 12:23 am to RTR America
As for Spurrier giving you the better chance at winning a national title, he hasn't done much at South Carolina. Snyder has flirted with the national title several times. I know he hasn't won one, but that's all Spurrier ever won, and honestly, as mentioned earlier, if the BCS were in place that year, they wouldn't have played for the title to begin with.
People have continued to rank K-State near the bottom of their preseason rankings, but Snyder has found a way to get them in the mix for a conference title. Spurrier had a good run at Florida, that outside of a few years in the early to mid-90's, was no more impressive than the entire body of work Snyder has presented at Kansas State.
People have continued to rank K-State near the bottom of their preseason rankings, but Snyder has found a way to get them in the mix for a conference title. Spurrier had a good run at Florida, that outside of a few years in the early to mid-90's, was no more impressive than the entire body of work Snyder has presented at Kansas State.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 12:30 am to brad8504
quote:
Okay, then let's go one step further. If you want to get down to it, Snyder did more for one school and the city of the school than any other coach in America has done for his respective school or city. Period.
Without the success of the football program, the school's enrollment wouldn't be what it is; the academics wouldn't be where they are; the facilities for both athletics and education wouldn't be anything special; the city itself would have never grown into what it is. The football program's success garnered attention for the city and the school. The athletics department is in much better shape because of what Snyder has been able to accomplish. A few years ago, K-State won conference titles in football, basketball, and baseball in the same year. Those programs are in a position to do well because the resources available to them are a direct result of the success of the football program. Every coach on campus has openly mentioned this and their praise for Snyder is high; not just for his accomplishments on the field, but for what he has enabled for the rest of the athletic department, the university, and the community.
Did Spurrier do all of that in Durham, Gainesville, or Columbia? No.
I mean, if you're going to count every little thing that falls under the umbrella of coaching responsibilities, then let's go ahead and include everything else that coaches contribute to.
Be careful with this argument.
I like Snyder a lot and believe he has deservedly has earned his reputation among the greats of the sport, but that is a very similar argument that Penn State fans used with Paterno.
Deification like that can lead to some ugly places. In no way do I think Snyder is doing anything remotely similar, but my note is simply to refrain from that kind of king-making.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 12:51 am to RTR America
quote:
Recruiting talent is part of the job description
Yes, but you have to take geography (proximity of talent) and resources into account.
Spurrier has coached in much more talent-rich areas, and been in more advantageous positions than Snyder at KSU.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 2:17 am to lsutigers1992
quote:
The only knock on Snyder is his record vs ranked teams. It's like 23-43 and even worse vs teams ranked higher than him. His scheduling methods have given him 3-4 rent a wins a year.
He was a 4th quarter choke away from facing a Florida State team with no QB in a BCS championship game I'm 97 percent sure they would have won going away.
Snyder came up with the idea of scheduling 2 sunbelt and a 1aa team to start the season. I always felt his '98 team was better than tennessee.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:39 am to Korin
quote:
Urban won more in his first 4 years than Spurrier did his entire 12.
Okay?
Thank spurrier for putting UF on the map. Saying he underachieved is laughable
He won more than the ~100 years before him
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:07 am to UnAnon
I'm not trying to take anything away from Bill Snyder because I truly believe he is one the better coaches out there and is a great man, but I have to choose Spurrier. Spurrier has won at every college he's been at. Duke ranks at #96 in all-time wins and South Carolina ranks at number 81 in all-time wins. Historically, these are terrible programs.
-Steve Spurrier has only had one losing season his entire coaching career. That was his very first year at Duke. They also went 5-6. That is mind boggling to me.
-Steve Spurrier won the ACC at Duke
-He had an incredible stretch at Florida that brought 1 national championship and 6 SEC championships, and
-Then brought three 11-win seasons at South Carolina (including winning the SEC East). Let's take a deep breath and remember historically how bad South Carolina is.
-Steve Spurrier has only had one losing season his entire coaching career. That was his very first year at Duke. They also went 5-6. That is mind boggling to me.
-Steve Spurrier won the ACC at Duke
-He had an incredible stretch at Florida that brought 1 national championship and 6 SEC championships, and
-Then brought three 11-win seasons at South Carolina (including winning the SEC East). Let's take a deep breath and remember historically how bad South Carolina is.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:11 am to RTR America
quote:
While Snyder may be recruiting lower ranked guys he is still likely looking for guys that fit a system he likes to use.
Snyder is a big JUCO guy, correct?
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:16 am to UnAnon
Bill Snyder. Kansas State was non-existent before Snyder got there. He has built that program into what it is today, then rebuilt after Ron Prince was canned. Amazing
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:17 am to 12Pence
quote:
Let's take a deep breath and remember historically how bad South Carolina is.
yeah people are giving USCe a lot more credit as a program than it deserves, historically. yes it is in the SEC and yes it has more talent geographically than Kansas, but no other coach was ever able to get that talent to go there over a period of time. also, spurrier never did win an SEC title but he was trying when the SEC is probably at its strongest ever. snyder's last "great" team was not exactly playing against a great Big12
spurrier's job at USCe may be a better overall job than what he did at UF.
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