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Roth 401k - early disbursement

Posted on 12/6/16 at 11:18 am
Posted by jmcwhrter
Member since Nov 2012
6551 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 11:18 am
Employer just announced that they are suspending 401k contribution matching. I have a Roth 401k that uses after-tax dollars, and after 5 years I have seen a roughly 5% return.

My understanding of the rules of Roth 401k is that I can do an early disbursement of the account, and will owe 10% penalty plus tax on the earnings of the account. Unless I'm way off, the penalty and tax only apply to the 5% return in the account.

Is that correct? Would I be better served taking control of this myself, considering the "aggressive" fund that I was in netted a 5% return with the market at all-time highs?
Posted by MSMHater
Houston
Member since Oct 2008
22774 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 11:33 am to
Correct. You can withdrawal what you have contributed penalty free. That money has already been taxed. The penalty applies when you withdrawal your earnings, which haven't been taxed.

This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 11:35 am
Posted by gamatt53
Member since Nov 2010
4934 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 12:20 pm to
5% over the last 5 years? Good gawwwd that's awful. Are there no other better performing fund choices? And no Match? Good lord yes leave that plan in the dust and probably consider moving on from that company too.
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Unless I'm way off, the penalty and tax only apply to the 5% return in the account.


The penalty and tax only apply to anything that is more than what was contributed. For example, suppose over the years you contributed $10000 and your company kicked in another $1000 on top of that that is vested. You can withdraw up to $11000 without any penalty. Anything more than that is subject to taxes and penalties.

Or ... you could just roll it over to a Roth IRA and pay no penalty or tax at all. That's usually the best way to go.
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4578 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:32 pm to
Sounds like there is no separation of employment so he's not eligible to roll this over unless his plan allows for an inservice rollover.

It would not be wise to cash out of a 401k bc of poor performance, it would be wise however to re-evaluate your plans investment options if you truly have only realized a 5% TOTAL return.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20385 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:31 pm to
OP, I don't see how its possible to have only a 5% total return in 5 years? Are you invested in some type of actively managed fund? Have you withdrawn money or otherwise lost it somehow?

If you aren't, I'd be on the phone trying to figure out whats going on?

Posted by Brummy
Central, LA
Member since Oct 2009
4496 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

you contributed $10000 and your company kicked in another $1000 on top of that that is vested

quote:

You can withdraw up to $11000 without any penalty

Aren't most matching contributions made on a pre-tax basis, even if the employee is contributing after-tax? I thought only the $10k would be penalty free.
Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
12716 posts
Posted on 12/6/16 at 3:55 pm to
I thought if u rolled to a Roth you are still subject to taxes and penalty.

Rolling to a traditional ira bypasses the penalties
Posted by GoIrish02
Member since Mar 2012
1387 posts
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:21 am to
quote:


Aren't most matching contributions made on a pre-tax basis, even if the employee is contributing after-tax? I thought only the $10k would be penalty free.


You're correct, only the employee contribution is post tax, employer match is pre tax just like a regular 401k. A Roth 401K segregates these 2 employee/employer components, which can be rolled over to a Roth IRA and rollover IRA, respectively, without penalty.

Not sure on the rules for qualifying for a rollover though on the employer match portion. I imagine if you're not participating going forward, you could rollover to a self directed traditional rollover IRA. The Roth 401k would work the same, it's just a Roth IRA on steroids (higher contribution limit, no income limitation) unless the investment choice is poor and expenses high. You should be printing money over the last ~4 years in even the most basic index fund.

Edit: I recommend everybody have a rollover IRA you control at a quality brokerage (Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.) where you can put all your accumulated qualified plan contributions over your career. No sense in leaving your money with someone who doesn't have your interest first.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 9:33 am
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