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re: Long Term Care
Posted on 9/27/12 at 1:11 pm to tirebiter
Posted on 9/27/12 at 1:11 pm to tirebiter
quote:
Those who have little in the way of assets have no means to pay LTC, those say at $1.5-3M can likely afford a policy but may have no need, those with greater assets can self insure.
Those who have less than $1M can't afford a LTC claim, I bet they could afford a small policy though.
With over 50% of people having a ltc claim, why wouldn't you want to protect some of your assets, I guess is the real question I have.
I'm seeing a lot of you guys saying well the likelihood of using it is pretty slim, but thy just isn't the case.
ETA: I appreciate your input. I've gone through a claim in the family, so it is something I enjoy discussing with people, but guys here are young, so it doesn't get discussed much.
This post was edited on 9/27/12 at 1:19 pm
1
Posted on 9/27/12 at 1:12 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Also, to whoever bumped this, was there a particular reason? This was quite an old thread 
Posted on 9/27/12 at 2:17 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
My GF is dealing with this now with her father. Assisted living with full time caregivers ain't cheap. She wishes they'd gotten LTC insurance.
Posted on 9/27/12 at 3:54 pm to Jim Rockford
Sorry to hear that. Hope things go well for him.
Posted on 9/27/12 at 8:33 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:Thanks for noticing. There are so many re-posts of the same old topics on the Money Board, I felt like a Google search was merited. After all, how many times have you in particular typed up the same responses to yet another whole life thread?
Also, to whoever bumped this, was there a particular reason? This was quite an old thread
The reason that I am just now interested in long-term care insurance is that I am finally at the point where I would even consider it. Thanks to some good fortune over the past couple of years, I am catching up on all of the car/house preventative maintenance, and also the insurance options that I skimped on in the past.
Really I just don't know what to expect from the premiums. I have heard they are expensive and don't know if it is worth the money. Also, my health is basically perfect except for chronic lower back pain (fairly moderate), so I don't know if that will affect things.
I could ask people around the office, but there are a lot of smart and successful people out there who are still knuckleheads with money. This board offers the best set of opinions that I can draw from (along with internet research).
Posted on 9/27/12 at 9:44 pm to Bayou Tiger
I'm guessing the time to get it is right around age 60; otherwise, you're paying for waiting too long to get it or you're paying too long by purchasing too early in life.
I'd also fathom that the average is 2.5 years in a facility, not 60 days as stated and that today it costs like $50,000/yr in LA. Inflation will probably double that cost by the time you need care? Home care would cost the same. Chances are technology will keep our bodies healthier a lot longer than our minds and we'll need longer times in care facilities or home care in the next 20-30 years.
I think, some insurance protection is better than nothing given the odds of needing some kind of care greater than the few days that medicare provides and medicare probably won't even be around for most of us.
I'd also fathom that the average is 2.5 years in a facility, not 60 days as stated and that today it costs like $50,000/yr in LA. Inflation will probably double that cost by the time you need care? Home care would cost the same. Chances are technology will keep our bodies healthier a lot longer than our minds and we'll need longer times in care facilities or home care in the next 20-30 years.
I think, some insurance protection is better than nothing given the odds of needing some kind of care greater than the few days that medicare provides and medicare probably won't even be around for most of us.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 12:24 am to Bayou Tiger
Well, there are a ton of different options for policies, so premiums are flexible. Also, many of the good policies now have it to where if you want to stop paying into them, you don't lose everything. The company keeps what you have paid into them in an account for you that grows with inflation, until you may need them for a claim. Also, you get a 30% discount if you and your spouse buy it (discount on both). The biggest factor is how long do you want benefits and how much monthly benefit? Furthermore, there are a lot of different tax deductions/advantages that are available to different type people. I know S-Corp owners get some HUGE deductions, and can get a policy for basically nothing depending on their age.
Also, 95% of the market or so severely underpriced their LTC policies when it originated, so they are having to drastically increase premiums to make up for it. Only a few companies left haven't increased premiums at all (I think Northwestern Mutual and maybe Guardian or somebody, can't remember for sure).
LTC is a widely misunderstood market on how the products work, so if you are interested, do some research into some of the stronger contracts in the market, and go talk to a representative and learn as much as you can to try and make an informed decision. If you would like me to point you in a good direction, I can, but I try to avoid getting too specific with recommendations on here, so as to avoid the "just trying to sell you" arguments.
Too many times. Luckily there are a few here that are open to actual discussions on the topic, instead of just spouting off what Dave Ramsey preaches.
Also, 95% of the market or so severely underpriced their LTC policies when it originated, so they are having to drastically increase premiums to make up for it. Only a few companies left haven't increased premiums at all (I think Northwestern Mutual and maybe Guardian or somebody, can't remember for sure).
LTC is a widely misunderstood market on how the products work, so if you are interested, do some research into some of the stronger contracts in the market, and go talk to a representative and learn as much as you can to try and make an informed decision. If you would like me to point you in a good direction, I can, but I try to avoid getting too specific with recommendations on here, so as to avoid the "just trying to sell you" arguments.
quote:
how many times have you in particular typed up the same responses to yet another whole life thread?
Too many times. Luckily there are a few here that are open to actual discussions on the topic, instead of just spouting off what Dave Ramsey preaches.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 12:26 am to DanglingFury
quote:
I'd also fathom that the average is 2.5 years in a facility, not 60 days as stated and that today it costs like $50,000/yr in LA. Inflation will probably double that cost by the time you need care? Home care would cost the same. Chances are technology will keep our bodies healthier a lot longer than our minds and we'll need longer times in care facilities or home care in the next 20-30 years.
Yea, that sounds about right. I know for nursing homes in AL, it is averaging $300/day. That is what my grandfather is in right now. He isn't stable enough to be able to come home yet. It is crazy. If I can get the capital, I want to try and open a nursing home or alternative living facility in the next few years, as they are going to be making a ton of money for a while.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 7:41 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Too many times. Luckily there are a few here that are open to actual discussions on the topic, instead of just spouting off what Dave Ramsey preaches.
Not sure I always agree with you, but appreciate your insight.
For the record, Ramsey does recommend getting LTC insurance.
I am not a Ramsey clone, but I've been known to keep up with his views, as well as others, on the subject of personal finance.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 7:56 am to CoolHand
You are definitely one I've enjoyed debating with.
Oh I don't completely disagree with Ramsey. He does have a lot of good strategies that really do help a ton of people in poor financial situations. They may not be the most efficient, but they are damn effective. Like I've said before though, he is just one of the many that tries to deal in absolutes on a subject that has more variables than I can even fathom
Posted on 9/28/12 at 8:20 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
t tries to deal in absolutes on a subject that has more variables than I can even fathom
I agree. I think he has to, though, considering his target audience. I can imagine it makes your job harder.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 8:27 am to CoolHand
A little, but for the most part, most people are open to listening to different options as long as their need is being focussed on, at the end of the day, that is what matters.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 10:13 am to Bigsike
quote:
Long Term Care can be very expensive.
My wife had a fairly well off grandma. After many years of assisted living upon her death she had barely any assets left.
Same for me. Years in assited living and nursing home wiped out few hundred K for mine as well. Anywhere from $36k per year to $60k per year as the amount of care increases from apartment type minimal assisted living care to nursing home.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 11:47 am to GoCrazyAuburn
With all of the complexities of LTC/LTD insurance, it sounds like way more research than I am willing to invest the time on.
Would this be a useful time to enlist an insurance agent or broker to find the best deal to meet my needs? Is there an automated website that accomplishes the same thing?
Otherwise, I am out - not going to pay high premiums without a full understanding of the value proposition and that I got the best deal that fits all of my needs. Apparently this is way more involved than a quick search for term life.
Would this be a useful time to enlist an insurance agent or broker to find the best deal to meet my needs? Is there an automated website that accomplishes the same thing?
Otherwise, I am out - not going to pay high premiums without a full understanding of the value proposition and that I got the best deal that fits all of my needs. Apparently this is way more involved than a quick search for term life.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 12:41 pm to DanglingFury
quote:
I'd also fathom that the average is 2.5 years in a facility, not 60 days as stated and that today it costs like $50,000/yr in LA. Inflation will probably double that cost by the time you need care? Home care would cost the same. Chances are technology will keep our bodies healthier a lot longer than our minds and we'll need longer times in care facilities or home care in the next 20-30 years.
As of 2010:
OBJECTIVES: To describe lengths of stay of nursing home decedents.
DESIGN: Retrospective cohort study.
SETTING: The Health and Retirement Study (HRS), a nationally representative survey of U.S. adults aged 50 and older.
PARTICIPANTS: One thousand eight hundred seventeen nursing home residents who died between 1992 and 2006.
MEASUREMENTS: The primary outcome was length of stay, defined as the number of months between nursing home admission and date of death. Covariates were demographic, social, and clinical factors drawn from the HRS interview conducted closest to the date of nursing home admission.
RESULTS: The mean age of decedents was 83.3±9.0; 59.1% were female, and 81.5% were white. Median and mean length of stay before death were 5 months (interquartile range 1–20) and 13.7±18.4 months, respectively. Fifty-three percent died within 6 months of placement. Large differences in median length of stay were observed according to sex (men, 3 months vs women, 8 months) and net worth (highest quartile, 3 months vs lowest quartile, 9 months) (all P<.001). These differences persisted after adjustment for age, sex, marital status, net worth, geographic region, and diagnosed chronic conditions (cancer, hypertension, diabetes mellitus, lung disease, heart disease, and stroke).
CONCLUSION: Nursing home lengths of stay are brief for the majority of decedents. Lengths of stay varied markedly according to factors related to social support.
tirebiter's take on this:
It is likely a small group of patients move the average to ~ 2 years, 53% die within 6-months. There obviously are outliers skewing the average. Is there a risk someone will not land in the 53% group? Sure. Is there great risk one will spend 3-yrs in a LTC? Probably not, but my crystal ball will not divulge where I might be.
LINK
A review of the private market for LTC: The Evidence
My wife and I will self insure for this, if things change and better options become available we will reconsider at that time.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 12:48 pm to tirebiter
That is just nursing home though. Thre is much more than that with regards to LTC.
The average LTC claim is around 3 years.
The average LTC claim is around 3 years.
This post was edited on 9/28/12 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 9/28/12 at 12:58 pm to Bayou Tiger
quote:
Otherwise, I am out - not going to pay high premiums without a full understanding of the value proposition and that I got the best deal that fits all of my needs. Apparently this is way more involved than a quick search for term life.
Yea, it is a lot more complicated than term life. If it is something that you are concerned about, then going to talk to an agent who can really explain it would be wise. Most agencies will have a LTC specialists you can meet with.
It is a product where looking strictly at price would not be wise, as contracts can be very different. As I said earlier, companies that have not raised rates on their LTC are Northwestern Mutual, Mass Mutual, and New York Life. Northwestern and NYL actually pay dividends On their policies. Most agents you talk to can get you quotes from any company you want to look at. However, Northwestern has exclusivity with their agents, so you would need to talk to one of them to see their policy.
Hope this helps some
Posted on 9/28/12 at 1:05 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
That is just nursing home though. Thre is much more than that with regards to LTC.
That is why the second link was put in the post, read it.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 1:13 pm to tirebiter
Ah, thought that was the link for the article.
Seeing as it is 25 pages, I'll read through it tonight and get back to you.
Seeing as it is 25 pages, I'll read through it tonight and get back to you.
Posted on 9/28/12 at 8:28 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
I used to sell a ton of this.
Age and health are two biggest factors.
Ltc also includes home health care, that was always my selling point... Nobody ever wanted to talk about facility based care, but mention home care and people espec retired folks were all ears.
Age and health are two biggest factors.
Ltc also includes home health care, that was always my selling point... Nobody ever wanted to talk about facility based care, but mention home care and people espec retired folks were all ears.
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