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Started By
Message
Is it possible to save too much for retirement?
Posted on 8/20/15 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 8/20/15 at 4:26 pm
I guess I mean percentage wise. I am not a baller by any means but we do ok. Live confrotably, vacation reasonably, aren't really wanting for much over the ordinary.... Mid 30's, 2 kids, only non-mortgage debt is paying for some improvements to the house on the heloc. That being said, my two maxims are save for retirement and pay down my house. These are two things I do not waiver on.
We put a good $20k-$25k into retirement yearly between 401k's and roths and an extra $5k-$10k onto our mortgage yearly.
At the end of the day, after retirement and extra house payments, we're left with very little other $ to "save". I don't feel bad because it's not like we're wasting money on stuff and I have a heloc and roths to pull from if the SHTF.
My question, I guess, is should we be diverting some of the money that goes to the house/retirement into another savings vehicle? Eventually (5-10 years), we'd like to build our forever house. Theoretically it will cost more than what we'd sell our current house for so I could either a) get another mortgage at that point to pay the difference or b) save up and pay all cash.
Thoughts, insights, etc?
We put a good $20k-$25k into retirement yearly between 401k's and roths and an extra $5k-$10k onto our mortgage yearly.
At the end of the day, after retirement and extra house payments, we're left with very little other $ to "save". I don't feel bad because it's not like we're wasting money on stuff and I have a heloc and roths to pull from if the SHTF.
My question, I guess, is should we be diverting some of the money that goes to the house/retirement into another savings vehicle? Eventually (5-10 years), we'd like to build our forever house. Theoretically it will cost more than what we'd sell our current house for so I could either a) get another mortgage at that point to pay the difference or b) save up and pay all cash.
Thoughts, insights, etc?
Posted on 8/20/15 at 4:45 pm to poochie
quote:
b) save up and pay all cash.
If interest rates go up
if they stay low
quote:
a) get another mortgage at that point to pay the difference
and enjoy your new saved money yo
Posted on 8/20/15 at 4:48 pm to poochie
You can always throttle back your savings rate in the future, but you can never go back and increase your savings.
Posted on 8/20/15 at 5:00 pm to schexyoung
Oh, the amount being saved won't change. I'm just wondering if I should divert some of that amount to another type of more liquid investment as opposed to retirement/extra housing.
Posted on 8/20/15 at 5:41 pm to poochie
Yes, I do believe you can save too much in one vehicle. What I mean by that is by funneling money into your 401k or Traditional IRA for the tax deferral could actually cause you to have a higher tax consequence later on in life when you begin RMD's.
In some occasions I believe it's better to bite the bullet and pay taxes now rather than pay potentially more taxes later in life.
In some occasions I believe it's better to bite the bullet and pay taxes now rather than pay potentially more taxes later in life.
Posted on 8/20/15 at 8:30 pm to poochie
Sure, it's possible to save too much. But you won't regret it nearly as much as the other way around.
Posted on 8/20/15 at 9:40 pm to Shepherd88
For this year we're 60% pre-tax, 40% post.
Overall we're 95% pre-tax, 5% post.
Overall we're 95% pre-tax, 5% post.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 12:01 am to poochie
At least 15% per year, including company match.
TD baller status if 20%.
TD baller status if 20%.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 6:41 am to matthew25
I assume you already are saving for college for the two kiddos. Right?
That's my next focus. Paid debt down to acceptable levels, 401k is at modest levels, but I need to get a little better on college.
That's my next focus. Paid debt down to acceptable levels, 401k is at modest levels, but I need to get a little better on college.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 9:13 am to LSUfan20005
We're between 20% and 25% of gross put into retirement..
As far as the kids, yes and no... I am setting money aside in a savings account for them. They're young so it's not much. I don't know which way to go for that. They'll be going to a Catholic high school so I'm more concerned with high school tuition than college. I don't want to be tied down to using it only for college in a 529 and i also don't want it to be tied directly to one of them (should they get a scholarship or not even go to college). I'd rather have something to potentially defray the cost of high school then possibly be used for college or something else if not required there. I just don't like the idea of being tied down.
As far as the kids, yes and no... I am setting money aside in a savings account for them. They're young so it's not much. I don't know which way to go for that. They'll be going to a Catholic high school so I'm more concerned with high school tuition than college. I don't want to be tied down to using it only for college in a 529 and i also don't want it to be tied directly to one of them (should they get a scholarship or not even go to college). I'd rather have something to potentially defray the cost of high school then possibly be used for college or something else if not required there. I just don't like the idea of being tied down.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 10:53 am to poochie
*adjusts tin foil hat*
Yes. I believe one goal of the 401k/IRA program is to ensure that economically productive Americans continue working until full retirement age, by ensuring that they cannot access a large % of the money they have earned until they have reached the end of their normal working life.
*removes tin foil hat*
I never pay any extra money towards my mortgage. All that money goes into a standard, fairly conservative investment account. If & when the balance of that account becomes higher than the balance of the mortgage, I can pay it off in one fell swoop. In the meantime, the money stays liquid.
Yes. I believe one goal of the 401k/IRA program is to ensure that economically productive Americans continue working until full retirement age, by ensuring that they cannot access a large % of the money they have earned until they have reached the end of their normal working life.
*removes tin foil hat*
I never pay any extra money towards my mortgage. All that money goes into a standard, fairly conservative investment account. If & when the balance of that account becomes higher than the balance of the mortgage, I can pay it off in one fell swoop. In the meantime, the money stays liquid.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 11:02 am to Cold Cous Cous
Yes....wife just received a check from her company for $2k+ because she had put to much into her 401k this year.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 11:15 am to Kingwood Tiger
Well, I like to think that I am doing a lot right now in order to retire early. I understand that that money is basically untouchable until a locked in date. What I would plan to do is at some point transition some of the dollars that go to Roth/401k to a more liquid vehicle in order to draw from before I can touch my "retirement". So use that for years from my actual retirement date to "Roth/401k no penalty access" date.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 11:35 am to Kingwood Tiger
From an economic theory perspective, yes, you can save too much.
Savings is basically stored "utility" (how much enjoyment, usefulness you get from spending). By saving for the future and seeing your accounts grow via interest, you are delaying utility that could be consumed today with the hopes/expectations of being able to consume more utility in the future.
The issue is if you do not get to the future point in time when you are able to use the savings. If you die before you use savings, then it is lost utility (albeit, someone who inherits the savings receives the utility).
However, there is also "marginal utility" at play. While you are working and earning and income you could spend everything you earn but the more you spend the lower your marginal utility will most likely be (diminishing returns). But, when you are in retirement age, you have to have a minimum amount of savings to be able to survive and maintain a standard of living. In retirement, each dollar you have saved has enormous amounts of utility in helping you maintain SOL. This is why the scenario of "better to have too much than too little" plays out.
Therefore, the savings decision plays out as a risk/reward decision. Do you want to enjoy now at higher absolute amounts but lower marginal utility or save for later and have security against your current, less exorbitant SOL.
Savings is basically stored "utility" (how much enjoyment, usefulness you get from spending). By saving for the future and seeing your accounts grow via interest, you are delaying utility that could be consumed today with the hopes/expectations of being able to consume more utility in the future.
The issue is if you do not get to the future point in time when you are able to use the savings. If you die before you use savings, then it is lost utility (albeit, someone who inherits the savings receives the utility).
However, there is also "marginal utility" at play. While you are working and earning and income you could spend everything you earn but the more you spend the lower your marginal utility will most likely be (diminishing returns). But, when you are in retirement age, you have to have a minimum amount of savings to be able to survive and maintain a standard of living. In retirement, each dollar you have saved has enormous amounts of utility in helping you maintain SOL. This is why the scenario of "better to have too much than too little" plays out.
Therefore, the savings decision plays out as a risk/reward decision. Do you want to enjoy now at higher absolute amounts but lower marginal utility or save for later and have security against your current, less exorbitant SOL.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 11:53 am to lynxcat
i understand that. like i said, we live the life we want (not jet setting but you know, normal middle class style) and have toys/fun. I look at it like this if i die: a) i'll be dead so who cares and b) i'll leave something to my kids. Either way, i'm dead.
It's when i hear folks say "i've got $40k-$50k-$60k in my account to put towards a house/car/camp/etc" i wonder if i'm doing something wrong. My most liquid accounts never get over $10k and that is pretty much just a revolving door in/out.
It's when i hear folks say "i've got $40k-$50k-$60k in my account to put towards a house/car/camp/etc" i wonder if i'm doing something wrong. My most liquid accounts never get over $10k and that is pretty much just a revolving door in/out.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 11:56 am to poochie
quote:
i understand that. like i said, we live the life we want (not jet setting but you know, normal middle class style) and have toys/fun. I look at it like this if i die: a) i'll be dead so who cares and b) i'll leave something to my kids. Either way, i'm dead.
It's when i hear folks say "i've got $40k-$50k-$60k in my account to put towards a house/car/camp/etc" i wonder if i'm doing something wrong. My most liquid accounts never get over $10k and that is pretty much just a revolving door in/out.
I wouldn't worry about what the Jones' are doing. Those same people could have $50k cash and have nothing in the 401k.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 1:08 pm to poochie
quote:
Thoughts, insights, etc?
quote:
and an extra $5k-$10k onto our mortgage yearly
yea, stop doing that. Money for housing is silly cheap, there is NO financial reason to be paying down your house early.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 1:46 pm to poochie
I think it would only be considered too much if it is negatively affecting your shorter-term financial obligations and goals.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 1:56 pm to lynxcat
quote:
But, when you are in retirement age, you have to have a minimum amount of savings to be able to survive and maintain a standard of living. In retirement, each dollar you have saved has enormous amounts of utility in helping you maintain SOL.
This seems directly backwards to me. Old people ain't exactly living it up. Who do you think is in a better situation to enjoy a Yellowstone vacation - 30 year old or 70 year old?
Ah, but Cous, you reply. The 70 year old has much more money to spend on the vacation thanks to the magic of compounding. True, but the 70 year old also has to spend a lot more money - no staying in tents and eating ramen, you have to pay for the hotels and the ridiculous guided tours with 40 other old folks crammed into a bus.
Everything is a trade of time for money, or vice versa. I'm growing increasingly convinced that trading time in youth for money in old age is a horrible deal.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:37 pm to Cold Cous Cous
i'm doin work now so when i get to 50, i won't be worried about scrambling for retirement and when i retire, i won't be bagging groceries. I should hit $1,000,000 in the next 10-12 years then i can cruise and let that compound for 10-15 more years until i reach retirement age. All the while at that age i'm having fun: buy camp, boat, large scale vacations when my kids are of age to enjoy large scale vacations (yellowstone, europe, etc, holly beach.)
getting back to the main question, what's the benefit of having a large amount of liquid assets from ages 25-45?
getting back to the main question, what's the benefit of having a large amount of liquid assets from ages 25-45?
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