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Emergency fund in Roth IRA

Posted on 8/21/17 at 7:48 am
Posted by meeple
Carcassonne
Member since May 2011
9331 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 7:48 am
On a couple of occasions I've read on this board where one can keep an emergency fund in a Roth. This would help me max my contributions for this year.

Are there any drawbacks to this other than bad performance eating into the base contribution since this is the only money that can be taken out without penalty?

What is a good Vanguard fund to keep an emergency fund in. VTSMX?
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 9:39 am
Posted by UpstairsComputer
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2017
1567 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 8:11 am to
Your emergency fund should be boring. Your Roth should be for retirement. That said, IF you find yourself in a bind you can use the principal in the Roth. Horrible idea, but yes you can. It's also a horrible idea to put your emergency funds in the stock market.

Your emergency funds cover you in the event of job loss, disability, and to cover large, unexpected expenses (such as a flood). Which scenario do you want to be caught in that you have to raid your retirement should the market be down 20%?

I love this board...
Posted by DallasTiger45
Member since May 2012
8419 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 8:33 am to
I would not keep my entire emergency fund in a Roth for reasons that the first response covered. A portion is probably fine if you have another 401K or IRA that is (obviously) strictly for retirement.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71327 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 8:54 am to
quote:


Your emergency funds cover you in the event of job loss, disability, and to cover large, unexpected expenses (such as a flood). Which scenario do you want to be caught in that you have to raid your retirement should the market be down 20%?



For people just starting out I don't think it's an issue if they only touch it in a legit emergency. It's getting tough for young professionals to just build a legit fund right away.
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39551 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 8:55 am to
quote:

Your emergency fund should be boring. Your Roth should be for retirement. That said, IF you find yourself in a bind you can use the principal in the Roth. Horrible idea, but yes you can. It's also a horrible idea to put your emergency funds in the stock market. Your emergency funds cover you in the event of job loss, disability, and to cover large, unexpected expenses (such as a flood). Which scenario do you want to be caught in that you have to raid your retirement should the market be down 20%? I love this board...


quote:

I would not keep my entire emergency fund in a Roth for reasons that the first response covered. A portion is probably fine if you have another 401K or IRA that is (obviously) strictly for retirement.




Let me fix all this right now.

If you are going to use the ROTH as an emergency fund, there is absolutely no obligation to invest that money into the stock market. It can sit in a money market.

Therefore, all the fears above are void.

The issue with not putting the Emergency fund there, assuming you can only save enough money to fund the ROTH throughout the year, is you either use the tax shelter or lose it each year. Therefore, I'd rather put emergency funds in the ROTH now, and in the future as my financial situation improves, THEN you start converting the funds inside the ROTH to riskier assets such as stock holdings.
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 8:58 am
Posted by meeple
Carcassonne
Member since May 2011
9331 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 9:41 am to
Thanks for the replies. Like I said it's been mentioned in some other threads so I was wondering the situations that one should do this.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20384 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 10:19 am to
If you can afford an emergency fund and to max your Roth, its certainly better to have them separated.

If you can't afford to max your Roth and have an emergency fund, then its definitely better to have your emergency fund in a Roth. As said, you don't have to invest it. Any principal you put in a Roth you may remove at any time. But you can't put that money back in.
Posted by UpstairsComputer
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2017
1567 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 11:29 am to
quote:

Therefore, I'd rather put emergency funds in the ROTH now, and in the future as my financial situation improves, THEN you start converting the funds inside the ROTH to riskier assets such as stock holdings.


Solid point. Wasn't how the question was posed, but thumbs up.

quote:

For people just starting out I don't think it's an issue if they only touch it in a legit emergency. It's getting tough for young professionals to just build a legit fund right away.


This, however, is riddled with excuses. 1) It's always been tough... 2) If you don't have an emergency fund, everything that happens is a legit emergency.
Posted by Hammond Tiger Fan
Hammond
Member since Oct 2007
16209 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 12:48 pm to
The is my approach and it's working for my situation.

I never keep more than $20K sitting in my emergency fund. If I have $20K in my emergency fund, I funnel the rest towards maxing out my ROTH. If something happens to my job, I think I would be able to find another within 6 months. With expense shedding, unemployment, and/or likely finding part time work I could likely stretch my emergency fund to cover well past a year. At the very worst case, I can tap into my Roth IRA.
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 2:22 pm
Posted by LSUengineer12
The Best Side
Member since Dec 2011
1850 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:11 pm to
I have a similar question:

We have about $25k sitting in a CapOne savings acct right now. Really wanting to put it somewhere so it can grow, even if it's at like 1%. Because it's earning absolutely nothing currently. Surely there's an ultra conservative account we can put it in, but also have relatively quick access to, right?

We both currently max Roth's just FYI.
Posted by meeple
Carcassonne
Member since May 2011
9331 posts
Posted on 8/21/17 at 7:38 pm to
Capital One 360 Money Market is earning just over 1% I believe. That could be one of the easiest things you could possibly do right now.
Posted by down time
space
Member since Oct 2013
1914 posts
Posted on 8/22/17 at 9:47 pm to
Some credit unions pay around 2.5% up to 10 or 15k on an active checking account, and then 1 or 1.5% up to 25k in savings
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 8/25/17 at 7:43 pm to
There's nothing at all wrong with using your Roth as your emergency fund. Just make sure that the portion you regard as "emergency money" is conservatively invested.

Now, if you can do more than max your Roth then you have to use another account (like a savings or brokerage) but if you haven't maxed the Roth go ahead and do it. That is always better than putting it in savings and *not* maxing the Roth.
Posted by player711
Member since Jun 2006
285 posts
Posted on 8/26/17 at 10:29 pm to
Can you lose money in your emergency fund? If So, then he put do not put that money with Vanguard.

you put it in overfunded cash value life insurance or some type of money market account with a federal credit union.

You have guaranteed options with those and liquidity.
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
26974 posts
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:34 am to
I think it depends significantly on what you mean by your "emergency fund". I have very little fear of losing my job, so my emergency fund is quite small, because it's solely to cover unexpected/large expenses (i.e. washer and dryer go out, insurance deductible, etc). It generally fluctuates between $2k and $5k, depending on how recently I've needed to dip in. Because money is not infrequently going in and out, I keep that money in an Ally savings account. And I would argue that this kind of cushion is crucial, otherwise you end up falling down the revolving debt rabbit hole.

With that said...

Unless you consider yourself at serious risk of losing employment with little notice, I think it's a terrible idea to forgo maxing your ROTH in order to squirrel away a larger "emergency fund". If you can fully fund both, great. But assuming you have a few thousand liquid for those unexpected expenses, I see no reason not to put the rest of your hypothetical emergency fund in your ROTH. Again, assuming a paradigm in which you simply can't afford both.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:51 am to
It's only really useful if you can't max the Roth otherwise.
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