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Started By
Message
WR attrition may happen. Can we look at the facts before bashing the offense?
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:27 am
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:27 am
We are not an air raid offense. Yes I would like us to look more competent in the passing game. However right now WR is probably the most stacked position we have. Dupre->5 star Dural-> 4 star Tyron Johnson->5 star Diarse, Quinn, Jazz, Derrick Dillon 4 stars. Chark gets reports of being the fastest guy on the team and that the coaches love him. Then we have a 6'5" 4 star coming in and a 6'3.5" 3 star. Malachi is 6'3".
When you have that amount of depth at one position there will be attrition. It should be expected. O line might be another place.
Malachi Dupre had almost as many touchdowns this year as Jarvis and Odell did combined their sophomore year. He had 170 more yards than Jarvis and about 30 less than Odell and had one less game. Dural had near identical stats to Jarvis and had 4 less games. There are touches to be had to show your talent. You just have to capitalize when they come your way.
When you have that amount of depth at one position there will be attrition. It should be expected. O line might be another place.
Malachi Dupre had almost as many touchdowns this year as Jarvis and Odell did combined their sophomore year. He had 170 more yards than Jarvis and about 30 less than Odell and had one less game. Dural had near identical stats to Jarvis and had 4 less games. There are touches to be had to show your talent. You just have to capitalize when they come your way.
7
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:31 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Can we look at the facts before bashing the offense?
The fact is that LSU loses out on talented kids and has talent wasting away on the bench because of a piss poor offensive philosophy. It deserves all the bashing it gets.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:32 am to LSUfan4444
quote:
The fact is that LSU loses out on talented kids and has talent wasting away on the bench because of a piss poor offensive philosophy. It deserves all the bashing it gets.
Who's snaps do you want taken away?
Dupre?
Johnson?
Dural?
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:38 am to Adam Banks
Stanford, Arkansas, Bama, etc are all power running teams and all effectively get their TEs involved in the passing game. All of them throw off play action like LSU wants to. All of them find ways to create mismatches with their talent.
The focus doesn't have to be number of snaps, but what you do with the snaps that you have. Quality play design. Looking for more than the entire play depending on one person winning their one on one matchup or you get nothing. Teams have to respect Quinn running across the middle, which opens up the seams and sidelines. The guy who gets the target should be who is open, I don't care who it is and you shouldn't either.
Tyron, Dupre, Dural and Johnson all bring something different to the table and all of them can/should be used throughout the game plan. Not knowing how to use your talent is a major problem and has been for years.
The focus doesn't have to be number of snaps, but what you do with the snaps that you have. Quality play design. Looking for more than the entire play depending on one person winning their one on one matchup or you get nothing. Teams have to respect Quinn running across the middle, which opens up the seams and sidelines. The guy who gets the target should be who is open, I don't care who it is and you shouldn't either.
Tyron, Dupre, Dural and Johnson all bring something different to the table and all of them can/should be used throughout the game plan. Not knowing how to use your talent is a major problem and has been for years.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:43 am to Adam Banks
We don't need WRs as much as you might think. Cam Cameron is nothing if not an innovator, and I think he can put together an effective passing attack in other ways. Why not more screens to Fournette and Guice, or even involve the fullbacks? A healed JD Moore, or Brykeithon Mouton, or David Ducre could be devastating on an occasional fly pattern. It's time to think outside the box.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:44 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Who's snaps do you want taken away?
Dupre?
Johnson?
Dural
I bet this makes perfect sense in your head
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:46 am to LSUfan4444
quote:
Stanford, Arkansas, Bama, etc are all power running teams and all effectively get their TEs involved in the passing game. All of them throw off play action like LSU wants to. All of them find ways to create mismatches with their talent.
The focus doesn't have to be number of snaps, but what you do with the snaps that you have. Quality play design. Looking for more than the entire play depending on one person winning their one on one matchup or you get nothing. Teams have to respect Quinn running across the middle, which opens up the seams and sidelines. The guy who gets the target should be who is open, I don't care who it is and you shouldn't either.
Tyron, Dupre, Dural and Johnson all bring something different to the table and all of them can/should be used throughout the game plan. Not knowing how to use your talent is a major problem and has been for years.
This isnt a thread about using the tight ends. This is regarding WRs and our depth. The 3rd leading wide receiver for Alabama had ~300 yards as a senior. More than our 3rd but thats not gonna blow away the NFL scouts.
Cam Sims Louisiana 4 star the same year as Quinn had 46 yards.
Dupre and Dural were our unquestioned 1 and 2. They got their touches to showcase their talent. We have a large amount of depth. Some nice guys may get lost in the shuffle. It sucks, but its not just us.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:50 am to bencoleman
quote:
I bet this makes perfect sense in your head
Yes it does. In college offenses the number 3,4,5 wide receiver are not going to get a significant amount of touches outside of a few air raid offenses. The guys in question were behind those guys. If you feel that they should be ahead of them then say so. If not then using the "not showcasing their talents for the NFL" isnt a valid argument.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:50 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Who's snaps do you want taken away?
I don't think snaps are the problem so much as targets.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:54 am to Adam Banks
quote:
This isnt a thread about using the tight ends
My comments are about misusing talent in the passing game which is why LSU is losing out on some kids and why kids like Diarse transfer.
Its not just about touches, it about how they are used. All of them.
An effective offensive philosophy isn't just getting _________ x touches. That kind of thinking is exactly that the problem is with LSU's offense. National experts in both college and NFL are baffled about how ineffectively LSU utilizes their talent, including Fournette.
Quinn bring a skill set to this offense (much like the hands and pass catching ability of Guice and the mis matches Desean Smith creates against a LB) but the philosophy doesn't showcase his skill set.
Diarse was a big physical guy and made great things happen with the ball in his hands, alot of Devery Henderson. He, like many others are being misused.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 11:57 am to SabiDojo
quote:
I don't think snaps are the problem so much as targets.
And to take it a step further, what sort of targets do they get. On the one play that Harris shite the bed on where Quinn got behind the defense and BH6 rushed the throw, it's exactly how he should be used.
Get the QB on the move, roll the pocket with multi level crossing routes. Quinn can beat just about anyone in college football.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:02 pm to Adam Banks
I think he is saying our offense needs to use these guys instead of using one and two WR sets.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:02 pm to LSUfan4444
When we run heavy sets, it doesn't afford an opportunity to get more WRs on the field...When we do go to 3 wide sets, our young inconsistent QB locks in on Dural and Chi; the only exception is when quick outs are called for Diarse or Johnson...
When we get to a point where our run/pass numbers are 55/45 or 60/40 and our QB looks for his second and third options, our WR corps will feel included in the game plans...otherwise, attrition will continue to occur
When we get to a point where our run/pass numbers are 55/45 or 60/40 and our QB looks for his second and third options, our WR corps will feel included in the game plans...otherwise, attrition will continue to occur
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:04 pm to LSUGoo
Your thread says it correctly... Bottom line is if we have better QB execution we will be crazy good.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:06 pm to Adam Banks
OP is right...
As much as I hate losing quality players like Diarse, there are only so many targets to go around. Especially in our offense under Les. Malachi is te clear cut #1 and Dural is #2. After that, it's a rotation for that WR3 spot between Johnson, Diarse, Quinn, Chark, etc. And IMO, it's only a matter of time before Johnson emerges as that guy.
Plus, we have a strong recruiting class at the WR position with Anderson, Sullivan, Coxie, and possibly a few more (some big time WR recruits).
Hate losing guys that contribute, but I completely understand why they would want to go somewhere to get more looks. We are extremely deep at WR and will continue to add big time talent there each year in recruiting.
Best of luck to anyone who decides to look elsewhere.
Edit: I do wish we used DeSean Smith a lot more though. Kids a mismatch nightmare and having a guy like that could really help an inexperienced QB like Harris was this year.
As much as I hate losing quality players like Diarse, there are only so many targets to go around. Especially in our offense under Les. Malachi is te clear cut #1 and Dural is #2. After that, it's a rotation for that WR3 spot between Johnson, Diarse, Quinn, Chark, etc. And IMO, it's only a matter of time before Johnson emerges as that guy.
Plus, we have a strong recruiting class at the WR position with Anderson, Sullivan, Coxie, and possibly a few more (some big time WR recruits).
Hate losing guys that contribute, but I completely understand why they would want to go somewhere to get more looks. We are extremely deep at WR and will continue to add big time talent there each year in recruiting.
Best of luck to anyone who decides to look elsewhere.
Edit: I do wish we used DeSean Smith a lot more though. Kids a mismatch nightmare and having a guy like that could really help an inexperienced QB like Harris was this year.
This post was edited on 1/1/16 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:06 pm to TampaTiger22
quote:
I think he is saying our offense needs to use these guys instead of using one and two WR sets.
Doesn't help Quinn or Diarse significantly this year. Great character guys and bring something to the team but based of what happened in games it was dural, dupre, Johnson then Quinn/Diarse plus you add in our occasional throws to Colin jeter there's not a lot of targets for the fourth wr in this offense and that could be said for most any offense that produces nfl wrs on a routine basis. 3 wrs and they dont get on the field. 4 wrs and it alternated.
We have a significant amount of very talented depth. That is what this thread is about. When that happens people transfer. Thats why Baker Mayfield transferred.
This post was edited on 1/1/16 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:10 pm to BBQ Tim
Some seem to not realize that this is the flip side of being able to successfully recruit five star RBs on a consistent basis.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:10 pm to Adam Banks
We could do a helluva lot better job of getting more skill players on the field during plays, instead of wasting spots using an offensive tackle-like TE and a FB so much.
Instead of having this surplus of skill players waste away on the bench and then transfer, use those staff recruiting skills to get more OL and DL. Hell, the pumpers claim we need these coaches because they are such good recruiters even if they cannot develop players.
Either utilize all these skill position players, or balance out the recruiting.
What good does a number three or so ranked class do for us? It's still behind the gumps' and a significant number of these highly touted four and five stars waste away on the bench and/or transfer.
Instead of having this surplus of skill players waste away on the bench and then transfer, use those staff recruiting skills to get more OL and DL. Hell, the pumpers claim we need these coaches because they are such good recruiters even if they cannot develop players.
Either utilize all these skill position players, or balance out the recruiting.
What good does a number three or so ranked class do for us? It's still behind the gumps' and a significant number of these highly touted four and five stars waste away on the bench and/or transfer.
Posted on 1/1/16 at 12:21 pm to LSUfan4444
quote:
LSUfan4444
You are either Trey Quinn or you have a man crush on him.
quote:
The fact is that LSU loses out on talented kids and has talent wasting away on the bench
quote:
Teams have to respect Quinn running across the middle
quote:
Quinn bring a skill set to this offense…but the philosophy doesn't showcase his skill set.
quote:
Quinn can beat just about anyone in college football.
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