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re: What happened to Jordan Jefferson over the course of his career

Posted on 7/30/15 at 12:36 pm to
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

That is easy fricking stunk up the biggest game of his career and in turn lost LSU it's third BCS title!!! That is what happened!!!
Jefferson did not play well in the BCSCG, but he completed almost 65% of his passes in that game. Jefferson is not the reason LSU lost the BCSCG.

1. LSU did not run well against top five defenses. In the first half of the SECCG, LSUs' RBs gained 21 yards on 9 attempts. That's 2.3 YPC. On one possession, Jefferson completed a 9 yard pass on first down. LSU's RBs ran the ball twice and could not get the first down. The first half of the SECCG sucked for the entire LSU offense. (The second half of the SECCG was much different.) During the BCSCG, LSU's RBs gained 24 yards for the whole game.

The problem with the BCSCG and the first half of the SECCG is that LSU's offense did not work against those defenses. The problem was the offensive line. For the BCSCG, the O-line couldn’t move the Bama D-line, and they couldn’t hold them back either. There was no run game, and there was no time to pass.

In nearly every series of the BCSCG, the offense line failed to execute on at least one play. Bama had the best defense in college football. It would have been difficult to beat Bama unless they made a costly mistake or the offense executed at a very high level.

2. The GOTC loss motivated Bama to better prepare for and play the NC game. Bama was playing for redemption. Bama was very well-prepared for the game. The Bama defense was fully prepared to shut down the option. The Bama defense was fully prepared to shut down LSU's deep threat.

3. Bama lost the GOTC with their prior offensive strategy, so they were forced to abandon it. Bama took greater risks to win the BCCG. The Bama offense went in a completely different direction than it had all season. Bama relied on McCarron and passing rather than Richardson and rushing to move the ball. Saban took the ball out of Richardson’s hands and made McCarron win the game. Bama threw on nearly every first down. It was a risky strategy, but what did Bama have to lose? They had already lost to LSU trying to run the ball. McCarron had a terrific night; thus, the strategy worked.

4. Even though Bama had flipped its offensive strategy, it does not necessarily mean that LSU should have inserted Lee at any point in the NC game. Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know now that LSU’s plan did not work. However, LSU trailed Arkansas 14-0 in the second quarter. The offense came around in the second quarter, and LSU blew out Arkansas. LSU trailed Georgia 10-0 at the half in the SECCG. The offense was atrocious the first half but came around in the second half, and LSU blew out Georgia. With a few dozen plays left, it was not unreasonable for Miles to go with the strategy that worked so well in the two previous games. It was at least as reasonable as trying a QB that was the antithesis of the ideal QB to use against Bama.

5. Jefferson was the right choice for the entire game. Lee would have been ineffective. Jefferson in the pocket slowed down the Bama rush because Bama used a mush rush to contain Jefferson and prevent him from running. It’s the same idea LSU used against Manziel to keep him from breaking off long runs. Slow the rush and contain the QB. Bama would not have used a mush rush against Lee because Lee is no threat to run.

So if Miles put in Lee, there’s still no run game, and now there is even less time to pass. If there is one thing Bama feasted on, it was immobile pocket passers. Lee’s historic numbers against Bama confirm this fact. His QB Rating against Bama could fit in a shoe box.

Lee was efficient, but not prolific.
During 2011, "efficient" is the single word that defined Lee. You'll be hard pressed to find a post about Lee without the word "efficient" just a few words away. The thing about being defined as “efficient” is that it means that you aren’t a prolific passer; you don’t throw it a lot. In fact, it typically means that the offense is run-oriented and passes infrequently. Prior to the GOTC, Lee averaged less than 20 passes per game. Lee had only one game in 2011 in which he threw for more than 200 yards: 213 yards against Mississippi State. Lee wasn’t a prolific passer. He was efficient.

Efficient does not work when you can’t run.
Efficient works when your team can run the ball effectively. Efficient means that the defense is focused on stopping the run. Efficient means that the defense is not expecting a pass. Efficient means that you have time to throw because the defense is not focused on stopping the pass. Efficient does not work when you aren’t running well. Efficient does not work when your line can’t block. Bama’s D was suffocating that night. Bama would have killed Lee.

Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
In the nine games that Lee started during the regular season, LSU gained over 400 yards just once. In the three games that Jefferson started during the regular season, LSU gained more than 400 yards in every game. Every game. Lee threw for over 200 yards (213) just once in nine games. Jefferson threw for more than 200 yards (208) once in three games. Jefferson completed 100% of his passes against Ole Miss. Lee never completed 100% of his passes in any of his starts. Jefferson had over 3.5 YPC (including sacks) in 2011. Lee had negative rushing yards.

Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.

Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't

Jefferson was more efficient than Lee
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. From his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.

So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.

6. LSU should not have been playing Bama. LSU beat Bama at their house in the Game of the Century. You play the hand you’re dealt, but it was a raw deal.
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

Jefferson also led LSU to it's two worst games offensively


Against Oregon, Jarrett Lee completed fewer than 50% of his passes for fewer than 100 yards. Our offense managed just 10 points in the first half, but took the lead due to great defense and a fumble recovery on a punt return from Tyrann Mathieu.

Jarrett Lee halftime stats:
7/14 54 1 TD

In the second half, Sam Montgomery forced a fumble which Eric Reid recovered at the 21, and De'Anthony Thomas fumbled another kickoff, giving LSU the ball at the 41. Both turnovers resulted in touchdowns.

Additionally, Michael Ford and Spencer Ware combined for 27 car 128 yards and 3 TDs in the second half.

Explain to me how this was any different than the SECCG....
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

Explain to me how this was any different than the SECCG....
quote:

Jarrett Lee halftime stats:
7/14 54 1 TD


JJ full game
5/13 30 yds
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:15 pm to
JJ full game
5/13 30 yds

JL full game
10/22 98 yds

Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64420 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

Jefferson executed the option and zone read to near perfection in the second half of the SECCG, a game in which LSU scored FOUR offensive touchdowns.
4 touchdowns of which he was slightly responsible for one. defense and special teams and a long alfred blue run on a 4 play drive gave the offense 4 scores. the offense was pathetic. 230ish total yards shows that. jefferson had 67 total yards in the BCSCG. again, i don;t give a baker's frick what his completion percentage was. he also pitched the ball right to cj mosley on one of the worst plays i've ever seen in an lsu game. 11 completions for 53 yards isn;t something i'd exactly brag about. he was garbage in both games
quote:

No they weren't. The SECCG was not even among the two worst in 2011.

yes it was
quote:

EVERY game that Lee started, LSU gained fewer rushing yards per play than LSU gained in the SECCG.


jefferson didn't account for any of those champ. he played horribly
quote:

In the SECCG, LSU gained over 200 yards rushing

jefferson didn't have any yards rushing, so what
quote:

LSU scored FOUR offensive TDs in the SECCG.

no thanks to jefferson. he can thank mathieu, the defense, and hilliard/blue
quote:

a lot of it was thanks to Jefferson being the QB on the field.

no it wasn't
quote:

Well, Lee did play against Alabama, but apparently, you don't want to hear about it.

yes, in november. what's your point? does that change how terrible jefferson is/was. he had a decent year in 2009. the rest of his career, minus a few decent games, was a fricking joke
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64420 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

Explain to me how this was any different than the SECCG....

we went three and out on every single first half possession in the SECCG. regrdless, no one said jarrett lee had an awesome game against oregon. thanks for bringing it up though. he also didn't follow that up with another equally shitty performance the following game
Posted by fightingtigers98
Member since Oct 2011
13228 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:25 pm to
Can this thread just die already?

Jefferson and Lee were both below average to average starters who showed glimpses of being good quarterbacks.

The question was how can someone go from looking so promising as a freshman and sophomore go to having such a terrible season as a junior, not just terrible but one of the worst ever.

It wasn't about who was better between JJ and JL
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

he also didn't follow that up with another equally shitty performance the following game


Against Northwestern State?!?!

How about Kentucky.. who finished the year at 5-7?

Halftime Score: LSU 14 - Kentucky 0
Jarrett Lee 1st half Stats:
6/16 124 TD

On the first drive of the 3Q, we rushed 9 times for 40 yards and a TD... then Tyrann Mathieu recovered a fumble for a TD and we were up 28-0.
________________________________________________________________________________

Against West Virginia, Lee led a great opening drive..
then Brandon Taylor picked off Geno Smith and Michael Ford ran it in for a TD...
then Tyrann Matheiu had a pick to set up LSU at the WVU 1 yard line....
then Morris Claiborne returned a kickoff 99 yards for a TD....

Granted, Lee did have a 51 yard bomb to OBJ for a TD in between all of that...

But, this was the same shite the 2011 team did the entire year. I really don't see why y'all feel the need to split hairs over a negligible difference between who was the better QB.
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 1:44 pm
Posted by 5Alive
With Your Moms
Member since Jul 2009
7658 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:33 pm to
Great breakdown for these fricking idiots, that are still brining up Lee. They will still find another way to say that Lee was better than Jefferson. The simple fact is that they just don't like him period.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64420 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

How about Kentucky.. who finished the year at 5-7?

why are you jumping all the way to Kentucky? he played two consecutive ranked teams after NW State

He played @ #25 Ms State and went 21/27 for 213 yards
He then played the following week @ WVU and went 16-28 for 180 Yds and 3 TDs

Do you really want to compare to Jefferson playing two straight abysmal games? Jefferson played well in one game against a good team in 2011. One. he was dreadful in the other two games he played against good teams. No one said Lee had a flawless season
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 1:42 pm
Posted by rickyh
Positiger Nation
Member since Dec 2003
12450 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:45 pm to
The NFL gave 0ver 350 players intelligent tests the year JJ was set to enter the draft. He scored last. Last of everyone they tested.
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

quote:

Jefferson executed the option and zone read to near perfection in the second half of the SECCG, a game in which LSU scored FOUR offensive touchdowns.
4 touchdowns of which he was slightly responsible for one


He threw a pass for a TD, and he was the QB for the other three TDs. In ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE. And again, LSU rushed better when Jefferson was QB, and the SECCG was the fourth highest YPC in 2011. (The only games with higher YPC were Jefferson's three regular season starts.)

You're really letting your hatred for Jefferson get the better of you.


quote:

quote:

No they weren't. The SECCG was not even among the two worst in 2011.
yes it was
I've given you facts to show you that it wasn't. You refuse to accept the facts.


quote:

quote:

EVERY game that Lee started, LSU gained fewer rushing yards per play than LSU gained in the SECCG.
jefferson didn't account for any of those champ. he played horribly


I'll explain this slowly.

First, in ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE.

Second, Jefferson rushed for 18 yards in the SECCG. Unfortunately, he was also sacked in the game and those negative yards count against his rushing total. Nevertheless, on one of his carries on third down, Jefferson gained 7 yards for a first down which continued an LSU TD scoring drive.


quote:

quote:

In the SECCG, LSU gained over 200 yards rushing
jefferson didn't have any yards rushing, so what


I'll explain this slowly.

First, in ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE.

Second, Jefferson rushed for 18 yards in the SECCG. Unfortunately, he was also sacked in the game and those negative yards count against his rushing total. Nevertheless, on one of his carries on third down, Jefferson gained 7 yards for a first down which continued an LSU TD scoring drive.


quote:

quote:

LSU scored FOUR offensive TDs in the SECCG.
no thanks to jefferson. he can thank mathieu, the defense, and hilliard/blue
:rotflmao:

He threw a pass for a TD, and he was the QB for the other three TDs. In ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE. And again, LSU rushed better when Jefferson was QB, and the SECCG was the fourth highest YPC in 2011. (The only games with higher YPC were Jefferson's three regular season starts.)

You're really letting your hatred for Jefferson get the better of you.


quote:

quote:

a lot of it was thanks to Jefferson being the QB on the field.
no it wasn't
I've already provided numerous FACTS in this post alone that irrefutably prove that "a lot of it was thanks to Jefferson being the QB on the field."


quote:

quote:

Well, Lee did play against Alabama, but apparently, you don't want to hear about it.
yes, in november. what's your point? does that change how terrible jefferson is/was. he had a decent year in 2009. the rest of his career, minus a few decent games, was a fricking joke
You sure are angry. Why?

His three regular season starts in 2011 were the best offensive games that LSU had in 2011. He led LSU to a HUGE win in the SECCG. LSU crushed Georgia. Jefferson led LSU to FOUR TDs against the #5 Defense.

Jefferson, like all LSU QBs under Miles, got better almost every year.

SEC Regular Season Games
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

Jefferson played well in one game against a good team in 2011. One. he was dreadful in the other two games he played against good teams.


He had 250 total yards against Arkansas... He had 100 total yards against an Alabama defense that gave up only 185 ypg on the season... both wins.

He did the same thing against Georgia in the SECCG that Lee did in the opener.. he sucked, he left the defense force some turnovers, and he made a few plays which allowed the running backs to bulldoze the defense.

The difference between the BCSNG and every other game where the game was within one possession late in the contest wasn't who was at quarterback... it was that in every other instance, somebody on D/ST made a play. In THAT game, despite not giving up a TD until the 4th quarter, the defense forced no turnovers, and forced only three punts... for a total of 1 return yard.

Too much is made of Lee and Jefferson.. on that night, the OL got abused, and the defense got shut down.
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

no one said jarrett lee had an awesome game against oregon
No one said that Jefferson had an awesome game against Georgia.

Thanks for the straw man argument and moving the goalposts.



quote:

he also didn't follow that up with another equally shitty performance the following game
Please tell me about every time Lee played two Top 5 Defenses in a row. I'll give you a hint: Lee NEVER did.


How about you just talk about Lee's performance in any game against a Top 5 Defense? Oh wait, you DON'T want to talk about Lee's performance in against a Top 5 Defense.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64420 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

Thanks for the straw man argument and moving the goalposts.

i didn't bring up oregon. i responded to a comment concerning his performance against oregon.
quote:

Please tell me about every time Lee played two Top 5 Defenses in a row. I'll give you a hint: Lee NEVER did.

speaking of strawman arguments
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

quote:

How about Kentucky.. who finished the year at 5-7?
why are you jumping all the way to Kentucky? he played two consecutive ranked teams after NW State
When did Lee play consecutive games against a Top 5 Defense in 2011? Never.


quote:

Do you really want to compare to Jefferson playing two straight abysmal games?
As I've repeatedly explained to you, LSU crushed Georgia 42-10, and Jefferson was an integral part of that HUGE win for LSU.

When did Lee play consecutive games against a Top 5 Defense in 2011? Never.

When did Lee play in consecutive championship games? Never.


Do you really want to compare 2011 Mississippi State to 2011 Alabama?



Do you really want to compare 2011 West Virginia to 2011 Georgia?



Do you really want to compare regular season games to championship games?
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

The NFL gave 0ver 350 players intelligent tests the year JJ was set to enter the draft. He scored last. Last of everyone they tested.
bullshite!

LINK?!?!

Is this like the 20 minute NFL tryout that lsufball19 was lying about?

Y'all will make up all kind of shite in your blind hatred for Jefferson.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64420 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

When did Lee play consecutive games against a Top 5 Defense in 2011? Never.

when did i say he did?
quote:

As I've repeatedly explained to you, LSU crushed Georgia 42-10, and Jefferson was an integral part of that HUGE win for LSU.


he played horribly against UGA. You can dance around that all you'd like. He weas terrible. I'm not going to debate that with you anymore. I couldn't care less that he was under center. He played like shite.
quote:

When did Lee play in consecutive championship games? Never.

when did i claim he did? jefferson was still horrible in both games
quote:

Do you really want to compare regular season games to championship games?

the fact that you've tried to argue jefferson didn't play that bad in either game is the most laughable part about your entire argument. you should have quit when you were behind
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:17 pm to
Let's try this another way... there were three games prior to the BCSNC where the defense failed to force at least 2 TOs... Western Kentucky, Kentucky, and Northwestern State. Against Kentucky, our defense forced 9 three and outs... and I assume we were playing reserves against Western Kentucky and Northwestern State.

They also scored 9 TDs in 7 games leading up to the BCSNC.

Against Alabama, the defense forced no turnovers, had no long returns, and allowed Alabama a scoring opportunity on 6/9 drives before giving up the TD.

Do you honestly believe, based on every game prior to the BCSNC, that either QB was going to have any success.. particularly with the defense failing to allow favorable field position and/or points to the offense?
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 2:27 pm
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5481 posts
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:20 pm to
quote:

quote:

Thanks for the straw man argument and moving the goalposts.
i didn't bring up oregon. i responded to a comment concerning his performance against oregon.


You defend Lee by saying that he did not have an "awesome" game against Oregon. That's terrific. You're right. He didn't.

But you're completely ignoring the FACT that NO ONE said that Jefferson had an "awesome" game against Georgia. NO ONE said it.

So, yes, you are creating a straw man and moving the goalposts.


quote:

quote:

Please tell me about every time Lee played two Top 5 Defenses in a row. I'll give you a hint: Lee NEVER did.
speaking of strawman arguments


Holy shite! Are you kidding?!?! YOU said this:
quote:

we went three and out on every single first half possession in the SECCG. regrdless, no one said jarrett lee had an awesome game against oregon. thanks for bringing it up though. he also didn't follow that up with another equally shitty performance the following game
You talk about how Lee never had poor performances in consecutive games. However, Lee NEVER played consecutive games against Top 5 Defenses.

It's not a strawman argument. It's YOUR OWN argument that YOU created.
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