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The Difference between a good coach and a bad coach
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:33 am
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:33 am
For some reason, I found myself wondering today, what do most of you feel is the fundamental difference that makes one a good coach? I realize the knee jerk reaction would be to say knowledge or schemes but it really has to be more than that. I mean look at the NFL for example. You know that most of those guys are familiar with most if not all of the schemes. It aint like it's quantum physics. Hell, some guys are even conistently great as coordinators but blow arse when they become Head coaches. Clearly, it's more than knowledge.
But what is it?
But what is it?
5
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:34 am to ShortyRob
You're on a roll, keep it up
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:36 am to Rickety Cricket
quote:
You're on a roll, keep it up
Oh. So it is obvious to you what makes a good coach vs a bad one?
I mean we all know good when we see it, but clearly, that's not what I'm talking about.
Also, do you think I started this thread as a knock on our coaches? I didn't.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:37 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Also, do you think I started this thread as a knock on our coaches?
Absolutely, why else would you have posted it on the Rant instead of the MSB?
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:40 am to Rickety Cricket
quote:
Absolutely, why else would you have posted it on the Rant instead of the MSB?
Um, because I chose to.
In any case, I was speaking about what people think generally. I don't expect names of good or bad coaches. That's not informative to my OP.
Here, I'll give an example. Why have so many guys with stellar NFL coordinator records failed miserably as HCs?
It's an honest question. Clearly, they know what they are doing. But, their implimentation apparently blows.
Oh, and as for our coaches, the only ones I've been totally unhappy with are gone.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:43 am to Rickety Cricket
Much the same as a great leader in general. Being able to get people to do what you want them to do in an effective manner. Also the ability to make them act wholeheartedly. Lastly being able to recognize talent and how best to utilize it. Some use this ability for the greater good and some use it for the great evil.
I wont mention names but a coach that wears a big red "A" in the western SEC conference comes to mind as latter.
I wont mention names but a coach that wears a big red "A" in the western SEC conference comes to mind as latter.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:45 am to ShortyRob
It's knowing who you have to piss off and who you have to coddle to get the most out of them. Knowing the right buttons to push. Can you get everyone on your team to run through a wall if you tell them it's best for the team. Oh and the biggest key...JUST WIN BABY.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:46 am to Oyster
quote:
Being able to get people to do what you want them to do in an effective manner. Also the ability to make them act wholeheartedly.
I agree with this although it still fascinates me how a guy can succeed at just these things being a coordinator and then prove wholly incapable of it as an HC.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:57 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I agree with this although it still fascinates me how a guy can succeed at just these things being a coordinator and then prove wholly incapable of it as an HC.
A key part of "head coaching" versus coordinating is the management of people at all levels, including the assistant coaches. A great coordinator, who works for a strong head coach, and has strong position coaches, doesn't have to see the big picture of the program. A great OC for example, really only has to get the QB and maybe another skill position player or two to buy in, and everything else works around them.
A head coach has to get the position coaches (6 or 7 in some cases), coordinators (3), strength and conditioning, Athletic Administration (or front office management in the pros), and a large group of players all moving in the same direction. And, if he stays there long enough, he's responsible for picking every person who's there.
That's the difference - some guys make the transition and are better head coaches than they were coordinators (more of a rarity these days, but Miles might be a decent example), while others, through temperment, circumstance, whatever, make excellent coordinators but don't have even remotely the same level of success at the next level (and again, Crowton might be a good example of this.)
ETA - Not to mention that a program can afford a great coordinator who is not a hard-hitting recruiter. No big time program can afford a head coach who doesn't recruit, and particularly close deals, well.
This post was edited on 8/29/09 at 3:00 am
Posted on 8/29/09 at 2:58 am to ShortyRob
This is really a fascinating topic. One I often think about. How some people can succeed incredibly at one level, promote them one level and then they fail completely. I like the quote, Everyone rises to the level of their incompetence. Look at Nick and Spurrier etc. Great college coaches that just couldn't bring it at the next level. Charlie Weiss etc.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 4:24 am to ShortyRob
"it's not about the x's and o's but the jimmys and the joes"
talent can make up for a lot of coaching deficiencies...
ultimately, the players have to buy into the coaching/schemes and the coaching/schemes have to be sound and appropriate -
the upper echelon coaches are great teachers/motivators...
we all have experiences with good and bad teachers in school - what was the difference?
I would say the best teachers are motivating, inspiring, competent, knew the subject backwards and forwards, confident, love to teach, have a vested interest in each student and their success, etc.
talent can make up for a lot of coaching deficiencies...
ultimately, the players have to buy into the coaching/schemes and the coaching/schemes have to be sound and appropriate -
the upper echelon coaches are great teachers/motivators...
we all have experiences with good and bad teachers in school - what was the difference?
I would say the best teachers are motivating, inspiring, competent, knew the subject backwards and forwards, confident, love to teach, have a vested interest in each student and their success, etc.
This post was edited on 8/29/09 at 4:36 am
Posted on 8/29/09 at 5:13 am to Ugozuna
quote:
The Difference between a good coach and a bad coach
Luck
If LSU doesn't make all those 4th downs against Florida, Les Miles is just another idiot with no chmapionships that can't coach talent.
If Syracuse doesn't upset Notre Dame, LSU does not move to #2 in the BCS and allow Nick Saban to win a NC.
If a ref doesn't make a dumb pass interference call, Jim Tressel is jsut a guy who can't win the big one.
If Pete Carroll goes ahead and puts his Heisman Trophy winner IN THE GAME on a 4th and 1, Mack Brown is another guy who can't win the big one.
Shall I go on?
Posted on 8/29/09 at 7:22 am to ShortyRob
Talent is the difference between a bad coach and a good coach. Ability to lead and use said talent is the difference between a good coach and a great coach.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 7:26 am to BBATiger
quote:
Luck
If LSU doesn't make all those 4th downs against Florida, Les Miles is just another idiot with no chmapionships that can't coach talent.
If Syracuse doesn't upset Notre Dame, LSU does not move to #2 in the BCS and allow Nick Saban to win a NC.
If a ref doesn't make a dumb pass interference call, Jim Tressel is jsut a guy who can't win the big one.
If Pete Carroll goes ahead and puts his Heisman Trophy winner IN THE GAME on a 4th and 1, Mack Brown is another guy who can't win the big one.
Shall I go on?
So excluding national championships, what makes a great coach?
I think bobby johnson and jim grobe are examples of guys that get the most out of talent
Posted on 8/29/09 at 7:27 am to Ugozuna
Ugozuna [excellent post! 
Posted on 8/29/09 at 8:02 am to BBATiger
quote:
Luck
If LSU doesn't make all those 4th downs against Florida, Les Miles is just another idiot with no chmapionships that can't coach talent.
If Syracuse doesn't upset Notre Dame, LSU does not move to #2 in the BCS and allow Nick Saban to win a NC.
If a ref doesn't make a dumb pass interference call, Jim Tressel is jsut a guy who can't win the big one.
If Pete Carroll goes ahead and puts his Heisman Trophy winner IN THE GAME on a 4th and 1, Mack Brown is another guy who can't win the big one.
IF the dog wouldn't have stopped to shite, h would've caught the rabbit! As the old cliche' goes "You make your LUCK". It is called calculated risk taking. Every coach does it. In fact every person does it many times during any given day. Sometimes they are on larger stages with greater impact. We (fans) dissect every play, quote, etc. of these men all year, but what we fail to remember at times is they are only men. They are not God. They will make mistakes and we need to be cognizant of that when we are watching the games.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 8:21 am to Rickety Cricket
What a bunch of BS. We all know what a good coach is. He's the one that posts a lot of W's. Let's face it, everything else pales compars by comparison, and everybody wants a coach that wins. It virtually dwarfs everything.
You know the guy, right? It's a Les Miles. Just plain good at heading up a program, which means he's got to be pretty good at everything.
You know the guy, right? It's a Les Miles. Just plain good at heading up a program, which means he's got to be pretty good at everything.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 8:25 am to Peachtree Tiger
Peachtree Tiger - to your point..
Tidbit (fun with numbers edition): My favorite type of tidbit. Some things to consider, or to be dropped casually with friends at the sports bar on Saturday afternoons: L.S.U. is an SEC-best 64-15 over the last six seasons; is 31-3 under Miles when leading after the first quarter; 9-7 when trailing after three quarters (that’s amazing); 38-2 when allowing 24 or less points; 29-3 when allowing less than 100 yards rushing; and – wait for it – currently ride a 30-game winning streak in Saturday night games at Death Valley.
LINK /
Tidbit (fun with numbers edition): My favorite type of tidbit. Some things to consider, or to be dropped casually with friends at the sports bar on Saturday afternoons: L.S.U. is an SEC-best 64-15 over the last six seasons; is 31-3 under Miles when leading after the first quarter; 9-7 when trailing after three quarters (that’s amazing); 38-2 when allowing 24 or less points; 29-3 when allowing less than 100 yards rushing; and – wait for it – currently ride a 30-game winning streak in Saturday night games at Death Valley.
LINK /
Posted on 8/29/09 at 8:29 am to ironsides
quote:
I think bobby johnson and jim grobe are examples of guys that get the most out of talent
+1 and Turner Gill.
Great Coaches are CEOs of the football team. They organize, motivate, evaluate talent, hire & fire staff, etc. The examples above about luck are what's needed to win a NC. Luck has been defined by some folks as the combination of timing and preparation.
Posted on 8/29/09 at 8:32 am to Peachtree Tiger
quote:
We all know what a good coach is. He's the one that posts a lot of W's.
+1 it's all about winning too.
This post was edited on 8/29/09 at 8:33 am
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