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Ron Cooper/Corey Raymond
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:27 pm
After leaving us for Tampa Bay, Cooper lost his job and is now the DB coach/Assistant Head Coach for the University of South Florida.
Since Cooper left, the secondary coaching has seemed suspect. In 2012, players like Eric Reid and Tharold Simon appeared to regress (or at least plateau) from promising 2011 seasons. Moreover, I can name 7 or 8 highly recruited DBs that have not really panned out for the Tigers in the last two seasons (won't name them here). We are now at the point where our best options were true freshman that appear to largely be playing based on sheer talent.
It is difficult, therefore, to not draw the conclusion that Corey Raymond has not done a very good job these past two seasons.
Certainly Cooper should be willing to come back home and rejoin the Tigers. Cooper was instrumental in getting the best out of his DBs and working with Chief. Sure, Patrick Peterson was a ridiculous talent who would make any DB coach look good. But Mo Claiborne and Tyran Mathieu were very different than Peterson; much more raw. And he helped mold them into stout CBs. Brandon Taylor was nowhere near the hyped recruit of Craig Loston, yet Taylor was a much more solid safety.
Any chance Miles cuts ties with Raymond and brings Cooper back? I'd love to see Cooper do with White and Robinson (and Jefferson, Paris, Brown, Battle, etc.) what he was able to do with PP7 and Mo.
Since Cooper left, the secondary coaching has seemed suspect. In 2012, players like Eric Reid and Tharold Simon appeared to regress (or at least plateau) from promising 2011 seasons. Moreover, I can name 7 or 8 highly recruited DBs that have not really panned out for the Tigers in the last two seasons (won't name them here). We are now at the point where our best options were true freshman that appear to largely be playing based on sheer talent.
It is difficult, therefore, to not draw the conclusion that Corey Raymond has not done a very good job these past two seasons.
Certainly Cooper should be willing to come back home and rejoin the Tigers. Cooper was instrumental in getting the best out of his DBs and working with Chief. Sure, Patrick Peterson was a ridiculous talent who would make any DB coach look good. But Mo Claiborne and Tyran Mathieu were very different than Peterson; much more raw. And he helped mold them into stout CBs. Brandon Taylor was nowhere near the hyped recruit of Craig Loston, yet Taylor was a much more solid safety.
Any chance Miles cuts ties with Raymond and brings Cooper back? I'd love to see Cooper do with White and Robinson (and Jefferson, Paris, Brown, Battle, etc.) what he was able to do with PP7 and Mo.
13
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:28 pm to Mike Linebacker
White and Robinson have looked very good for true freshman. I wouldn't freak out too much
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:30 pm to Mike Linebacker
Yay, rantards
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:31 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Blame Chavis for going to back to heavy zone packages. Corey has them playing pretty damn good. Look at the whole damn picture for once. No pass rush what so ever.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:34 pm to Mike Linebacker
Let's be honest. Cooper, while a good coach, got 3 Thorpe award type CBs to land in his lap. He wasn't a stellar recruiter, but when you have Peterson, Mathieu, and Claiborne coming in and playing as freshmen and sophs, it wasn't coaching that got those guys on the field either. It was the raw talent that those guys possessed at the time. The same can be said about RR, White, and Jefferson who were all in the Arky game.
After watching this year, I don't think Reid regressed last year. I think he was cheating to Mills side of the field to cover. Simon was the same as he always was. he hit his ceiling and wasn't going to get better. Let's give Raymond more time with these freshmen and the class coming in and see what he can do. 2 seasons is a little premature to pass judgment when one of those years we were starting 3 true freshmen at one point in the secondary.
After watching this year, I don't think Reid regressed last year. I think he was cheating to Mills side of the field to cover. Simon was the same as he always was. he hit his ceiling and wasn't going to get better. Let's give Raymond more time with these freshmen and the class coming in and see what he can do. 2 seasons is a little premature to pass judgment when one of those years we were starting 3 true freshmen at one point in the secondary.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:35 pm to Mike Linebacker
Word is Cooper burnt the bridge
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:36 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
White and Robinson have looked very good for true freshman. I wouldn't freak out too much
I think White and Robinson are just elite talents. I am not freaking out, but I have been disappointed in the development of our secondary. And I think Cooper did a great job when he was here.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:36 pm to Mike Linebacker
Cooper is considered one of the top db coaches alive. I agree with the op and think we have seen a noticeable drop off.
About Cooper coming back, I have read on several different websites that Miles and the rest of the staff had sorta had enough of Cooper when he left. Apparently he would go rouge a little bit and hand out offers to guys without the rest of the staff knowing.
Just what I read anyways. But if you think about it, he would be a no brainer to bring back if it was on coaching ability alone.
About Cooper coming back, I have read on several different websites that Miles and the rest of the staff had sorta had enough of Cooper when he left. Apparently he would go rouge a little bit and hand out offers to guys without the rest of the staff knowing.
Just what I read anyways. But if you think about it, he would be a no brainer to bring back if it was on coaching ability alone.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:37 pm to stho381
quote:
Let's give Raymond more time with these freshmen and the class coming in and see what he can do. 2 seasons is a little premature to pass judgment when one of those years we were starting 3 true freshmen at one point in the secondary.
Very fair response. Thanks.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:38 pm to Mike Linebacker
Raymond is bringing in five star talent, so you want to get rid of him because some kids don't pan out. Should Brick be let go because of the Freak lack of production. Maybe some of those players or just overrated !
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:40 pm to Mike Linebacker
So you give them credit for getting them here, but don't give them credit just because "they're elite talents"? That doesn't make any sense.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:43 pm to Mike Linebacker
Mike Linebacker haven't seen you in a while 
Fwiw if Robinson puts on 10 pounds that dude will be an absolute stud
Fwiw if Robinson puts on 10 pounds that dude will be an absolute stud
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:46 pm to Mike Linebacker
I wonder who these 7-6 elite prospect that didn't develop are, he has only been here like 2 years.
Loston and Tre White are the only five stars we've had on the staff.
Loston and Tre White are the only five stars we've had on the staff.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:46 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
So you give them credit for getting them here, but don't give them credit just because "they're elite talents"? That doesn't make any sense.
I can agree that maybe I'm being too harsh on Raymond. But none of the "next wave" CBs and safeties have seemed to develop. That is, the guys he has worked with the longest have not developed. They have been replaced with true freshmen who have not had several years in the program under Raymond's tutelage. I'm not expecting every DB prospect to pan out. But to have 7 or 8 in a two year span all seem to not get it and give way to talented freshmen gives me pause.
I don't follow recruiting enough to know how big a role Raymond played in getting these kids to come here. Maybe they wouldn't have come if Cooper had stayed. I don't know the answer to that. Again, that is another fair counter-response if it really is true that elite out-of-state prospects are coming here to play for him.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:53 pm to Mike Linebacker
I think White and Robinson looked great this season. The future is very, very promising in the secondary. Those guys will be stars.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:57 pm to Mike Linebacker
I agree that guys haven't panned out that we expected to step up but I think there's two huge reasons for that:
1) I think everyone, myself included, expected Mills to really step up and be a shutdown corner this year after a stellar freshman year. For some reason this kid just couldn't make the jump. That sent shock waves down the line and now all of a sudden you're trying to bring two true freshman up to speed for major playing time.
2) Not getting Landon Collins and having to insert lesser talent next to Loston. Loston has had to play a lot more coverage than I think anyone would like this year, he's a great tackling safety that needs to be near the line making plays. But everyone else we had at safety just wasn't very athletic or had any kind of coverage skills. Thompson and Martin are both similar to Loston in that they're bigger and better tacklers than coverers, hence Jefferson seeing more and more PT.
Once Jefferson has a season under his belt along with Robinson and White with Mills in a more natural nickel position, on top of these beastly recruits we have coming in, I expect much better secondary play next year.
1) I think everyone, myself included, expected Mills to really step up and be a shutdown corner this year after a stellar freshman year. For some reason this kid just couldn't make the jump. That sent shock waves down the line and now all of a sudden you're trying to bring two true freshman up to speed for major playing time.
2) Not getting Landon Collins and having to insert lesser talent next to Loston. Loston has had to play a lot more coverage than I think anyone would like this year, he's a great tackling safety that needs to be near the line making plays. But everyone else we had at safety just wasn't very athletic or had any kind of coverage skills. Thompson and Martin are both similar to Loston in that they're bigger and better tacklers than coverers, hence Jefferson seeing more and more PT.
Once Jefferson has a season under his belt along with Robinson and White with Mills in a more natural nickel position, on top of these beastly recruits we have coming in, I expect much better secondary play next year.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 1:57 pm to Patrick_Bateman
White needs to work on power and physicality
Posted on 12/1/13 at 2:01 pm to Stingray
He and Robinson both need an offseason to really grow into their bodies, especially playing in the SEC. They'll be fine.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 2:05 pm to Stingray
quote:
Word is Cooper burnt the bridge
Yep. The rumor is that he lied to Frank and Les during a major recruiting period. Said he was recruiting but was actually job hunting. Have no idea if it's true but has come up in a few different circles.
Posted on 12/1/13 at 2:21 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Word is Cooper burnt the bridge
Yep. The rumor is that he lied to Frank and Les during a major recruiting period. Said he was recruiting but was actually job hunting. Have no idea if it's true but has come up in a few different circles.
Pretty much. He flat out lied to Miles while on the phone with him at the Atlanta airport. Blatantly said he wasn't leaving, etc. while on his way to TB. Bridges charred and gone.
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