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Message
Just a thought about all the spread fans.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:47 am
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:47 am
I find it interesting that people point to Clemson as stating we need to move to the spread to compete with bama.
1) Oklahoma ran a spread and got their butts handed to them by texas and Clemson. So, you had a Clemson spread vs. a Oklahoma spread. One dominated the other. hmmmm, why is that? if it's offensive philosophy, if it's spreading people out, if it's having a qb that can run and pass, then why didn't ou's spread do well against Clemson? why didn't it do well against texas?
2) Texas A&M ran a spread against bama, didn't work so well. Miss St. ran a spread against bama, didn't work so well. Oregon ran a spread against lsu in 2011, didn't work so well. Florida ran a spread with tebow against Alabama in 2009. didn't work so well.
my question is, if we just change offensive philosophies, what is it about the spread that thinks you will run it like Clemson in 2015? Like texas A&M when they did beat bama? Clemson has been running the spread a while, this is their first team that has competed for a n.c. it's not just the offensive philosophy, it's the talent running the philosophy.
I think this has been a simplistic argument to justify a thought. The teams that have beat bama in recent memory have been teams that have similar talent and GREAT, not good qbs. What is lost on the spread fans is the other teams ability to affect bama on offense so they don't control the ball. the d/e against bama's rt tackle played as big of factor as Watson. Ole miss's defense played bigger factors as they turned bama over five times. When lsu beat and has been in position to win since 2011 has been their defense.
so, keep beating the spread's drum. I just don't believe it's the key to victory. it takes more than running a scheme. It takes special players NO MATTER the scheme.
To me, it's not a simple answer, oh, just need to run a spread. we will score 40. to beat bama, you have to have equal talent, you have to affect their offense as much as their defense and beat them in s.t. play.
1) Oklahoma ran a spread and got their butts handed to them by texas and Clemson. So, you had a Clemson spread vs. a Oklahoma spread. One dominated the other. hmmmm, why is that? if it's offensive philosophy, if it's spreading people out, if it's having a qb that can run and pass, then why didn't ou's spread do well against Clemson? why didn't it do well against texas?
2) Texas A&M ran a spread against bama, didn't work so well. Miss St. ran a spread against bama, didn't work so well. Oregon ran a spread against lsu in 2011, didn't work so well. Florida ran a spread with tebow against Alabama in 2009. didn't work so well.
my question is, if we just change offensive philosophies, what is it about the spread that thinks you will run it like Clemson in 2015? Like texas A&M when they did beat bama? Clemson has been running the spread a while, this is their first team that has competed for a n.c. it's not just the offensive philosophy, it's the talent running the philosophy.
I think this has been a simplistic argument to justify a thought. The teams that have beat bama in recent memory have been teams that have similar talent and GREAT, not good qbs. What is lost on the spread fans is the other teams ability to affect bama on offense so they don't control the ball. the d/e against bama's rt tackle played as big of factor as Watson. Ole miss's defense played bigger factors as they turned bama over five times. When lsu beat and has been in position to win since 2011 has been their defense.
so, keep beating the spread's drum. I just don't believe it's the key to victory. it takes more than running a scheme. It takes special players NO MATTER the scheme.
To me, it's not a simple answer, oh, just need to run a spread. we will score 40. to beat bama, you have to have equal talent, you have to affect their offense as much as their defense and beat them in s.t. play.
22
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:50 am to dos crystal
Riveting new thoughts. Really a fresh take
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:51 am to dos crystal
It not necessarily the "spread" it using your offense to create favorable matchups. Bama does it with a pro style offense. My complaint is with a system that doesn't make an effort to do that, instead attempts to simply wear down every opponent.
How many slants do we run, how many WR screens do we run. All of all pass plays involve routes that are 10-15 yards down field. In the run game, when is the last time we used a counter or misdirection or LF (or any back) to the edge with a pulling guard?
It doesn't have to be the spread, but it needs to be something that gets the ball in the hands of our best players with favorable matchups and in open space.
How many slants do we run, how many WR screens do we run. All of all pass plays involve routes that are 10-15 yards down field. In the run game, when is the last time we used a counter or misdirection or LF (or any back) to the edge with a pulling guard?
It doesn't have to be the spread, but it needs to be something that gets the ball in the hands of our best players with favorable matchups and in open space.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:53 am to dos crystal
A wise man once said, "It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes” .
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:56 am to The Pirate King
The problem is not a pro style offense or run offense. LSU is not balanced enough to beat Bama consistently. There is so little imagination in our offense and play calling that it is really easy for Bama to scheme against LSU.
Someone on the coach staff needs to understand statistics. All the deep bombs are to low percentage passes to give up so many downs to do it. Those deep passes, with LSU's passing game, are drive killers. There is no consistent threat to the passing game regardless of the system. The lack of consistency in passing is why LSU is beatable, not the offensive philosophy. Watching LSU football offense is like watching my 11 year old son play football on playstation, everything is a hail mary.
Someone on the coach staff needs to understand statistics. All the deep bombs are to low percentage passes to give up so many downs to do it. Those deep passes, with LSU's passing game, are drive killers. There is no consistent threat to the passing game regardless of the system. The lack of consistency in passing is why LSU is beatable, not the offensive philosophy. Watching LSU football offense is like watching my 11 year old son play football on playstation, everything is a hail mary.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:57 am to dos crystal
Of Alabama's last 4 losses, how many of those losses were against Spread vs Pro style?
Posted on 1/13/16 at 9:59 am to dos crystal
quote:
Texas A&M ran a spread against bama, didn't work so well.
Didn't work so well??? I believe they beat BAMA in the last 5 years unlike LSU.
quote:
1) Oklahoma ran a spread and got their butts handed to them by texas and Clemson.
Oklahoma once again, has beaten Alabama in the last 5 years and LSU has not...(i'm starting to see a key denominator here)
quote:
Florida ran a spread with tebow against Alabama in 2009. didn't work so well.
How many titles did Florida win during that time?
quote:
so, keep beating the spread's drum. I just don't believe it's the key to victory.
No one said running the spread is going to keep you undefeated and invincible. IT's just a better game plan that puts you in the best position to win if you don't have the same or better athletes than the opponent....And most teams dont have the same or better talent than bama.
You sound like Les....lets run it straight into that brick wall and hope something changes.
Special player are always a "want", however, not everyone always "gets" and they have to adapt the scheme to fit the talent level on hand. The spread was developed as a way to level the playing field against teams that control the line of scrimmage. Guess what, Bama does that 90% of the time.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:05 am to G I Jeaux
Lining up in the I formation with 1 wide out isn't working so good either yet we do it year after year. We don't need a spread offence, but we do need to spread the field some times. You need to create mismatches and do some things to give your players the best chance to succeed. We haven't done that.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:06 am to dos crystal
Well I think the big picture here that people are pointing out is that running a run-heavy prostyle offense against Bama isn't going to work.
It just isn't happening unless you have more talent than them, and play your absolute A game..
The teams that have had success against Alabama typically run some variation of a spread offense. Some with more Air Raid tendencies, others with more spread to run tendencies.
I personally want us to run a spread offense to loosen up the box for LF, and to get bigger playmakers on the field at the same time.
Dural, Dupree, Quinn, Johnson, Guice, Fournette, etc. seem to be a bigger headache to worry about defending as opposed to Dural, Dupree, Moore, Jeter, Gordon.
Just my opinion though.
It just isn't happening unless you have more talent than them, and play your absolute A game..
The teams that have had success against Alabama typically run some variation of a spread offense. Some with more Air Raid tendencies, others with more spread to run tendencies.
I personally want us to run a spread offense to loosen up the box for LF, and to get bigger playmakers on the field at the same time.
Dural, Dupree, Quinn, Johnson, Guice, Fournette, etc. seem to be a bigger headache to worry about defending as opposed to Dural, Dupree, Moore, Jeter, Gordon.
Just my opinion though.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:16 am to airfernando
quote:
Of Alabama's last 4 losses, how many of those losses were against Spread vs Pro style?
Such a simplistic view. How many teams run the spread vs pro style over the last 9 years? How many times have the beat the spread vs pro set over the last nine years? so because a team runs a spread, that is what beat bama. that teams defense, special teams, or talent had nothing to do with it?
I would say bama plays against the spread more than pro-set. I imagine if you look at their record over the last 9 years, it's probably comparable against either set. I believe it's more to do with the other teams other phases of the game. their defense, their special team, their talent vs the "philosophy".
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:21 am to G I Jeaux
quote:exactly why Arkie and the Rebs waxed our arse because of better Jimmys
"It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes”
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:31 am to TigerB8
quote:
Didn't work so well??? I believe they beat BAMA in the last 5 years unlike LSU.
ah, so beating bama once in the last five years is the key. so if you beat them 2 out of 7 last seven isn't good. you just have to be 1 and 8 with one of those victories within the last five years. makes sense.
if the spread is so good, why doesn't the best team in the country run it?
quote:
You sound like Les....lets run it straight into that brick wall and hope something changes.
I didn't realize I said run into a brick wall? I didn't realize I was in support of running 70% of the time. Can you please show me where I said that?
My point on the spread is the teams that beat bama have had Heisman trophy kind of talent at the qb position. And, their defense has been pretty salty as well where they can affect bama's offense.
A lot of people think if we run the spread, somehow, harris turns into the Watson, tebow, newton, johnny football. Bama beats plenty of spread teams without that kind of talent at qb. And, they have beat them with that kind of talent at qb. made tebow look foolish. Had no problem with Dak prescot. it takes more than a spread philosophy. You must have comparable talent, great qb play, a salty D, and good special teams.
When lsu has had comparable talent, a salty d, and decent qb play, we have faired as well as anyone against bama. And, we don't run the spread. As we speak, there are only TWO team that have beaten bama twice in the last 9 years. LSU and Ole miss. One spread, one pro-set.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:36 am to ellessuuuu
quote:
It not necessarily the "spread" it using your offense to create favorable matchups. Bama does it with a pro style offense. My complaint is with a system that doesn't make an effort to do that, instead attempts to simply wear down every opponent.
How many slants do we run, how many WR screens do we run. All of all pass plays involve routes that are 10-15 yards down field. In the run game, when is the last time we used a counter or misdirection or LF (or any back) to the edge with a pulling guard?
It doesn't have to be the spread, but it needs to be something that gets the ball in the hands of our best players with favorable matchups and in open space.
this exactly.
This post was edited on 1/13/16 at 10:37 am
Posted on 1/13/16 at 10:41 am to ellessuuuu
quote:
It not necessarily the "spread" it using your offense to create favorable matchups. Bama does it with a pro style offense. My complaint is with a system that doesn't make an effort to do that, instead attempts to simply wear down every opponent. How many slants do we run, how many WR screens do we run. All of all pass plays involve routes that are 10-15 yards down field. In the run game, when is the last time we used a counter or misdirection or LF (or any back) to the edge with a pulling guard? It doesn't have to be the spread, but it needs to be something that gets the ball in the hands of our best players
this. we have to have a successful passing game to beat Bama. it appears we have to beat Bama to win the SEC. it doesn't matter what the scheme is as long as we can move the chains. being one dimensional, whether running or passing doesn't win championships.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 11:33 am to dos crystal
Nobody is saying we have to go full on spread. But they need to get the QB position to be efficient or else will be stuck with dos crystal championships.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 11:45 am to dos crystal
If we had a quarterback that could make good reads and accurate throws and balance, we would have just about all of the benefits some perceive that going to a radically new type of offense would give us. If you can't key on LSU's running game because LSU can hurt you passing (competent and accurate quarterback), and you can't load the box with impunity on early downs because of our balance (closer to 50/50 than a 75/25 mix), LSU is going to gain a ton of yards and score a ton of points, even in the I/Pistol hybrid thing they run.
Conversely, if you design an offense with no real mix, your quarterback can't throw accurately, and your misdirection and matchup based plays are designed to get the ball to a walk on tight end, Air Force's tight end, and a walk-on fullback/guy who is a terrible fullback (instead of the litany of highly recruited athletes that play wide receiver, running back, and tight end), you're going to struggle against teams that can punch you back with physical defenses.
Conversely, if you design an offense with no real mix, your quarterback can't throw accurately, and your misdirection and matchup based plays are designed to get the ball to a walk on tight end, Air Force's tight end, and a walk-on fullback/guy who is a terrible fullback (instead of the litany of highly recruited athletes that play wide receiver, running back, and tight end), you're going to struggle against teams that can punch you back with physical defenses.
This post was edited on 1/13/16 at 11:48 am
Posted on 1/13/16 at 11:57 am to therick711
quote:
If we had a quarterback that could make good reads and accurate throws and balance, we would have just about all of the benefits some perceive that going to a radically new type of offense would give us.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 12:02 pm to dos crystal
Fans of Spread are annoying as shite. we get it. You've seen 120 shows; that's not something to be proud of.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 12:04 pm to dos crystal
quote:
dos crystal
you get to tied up in labels. That's one of the things I actually do admire about Saben is that he was flexible and able to adjust to the times and, like NFL teams, isn't so worried about pigeon holing his offense into some preconceived notion of what a pro style offense, or modern day offense, should be.
He has the talent level on his team to do anything he wants on offense (or defense for that matter) and still win championships, yet he chooses not to just line up and run into stacked boxes. He knows there is a better more effective way.
Teams with lessor talent might have to go to more extremes on offense than Bama does to be successful but even with what Saben has to work with he still runs an open modern style offense.
Posted on 1/13/16 at 12:08 pm to dos crystal
I'm not asking for us to jump to a complete spread offense (For one thing I know it's not going to happen under Miles). But if you expect to beat Alabama by running specifically I-formation or a pro style set you are kidding yourself.
LSU should have learned from how Ole Miss & Ohio State have beaten UA. Spread them out and make them play quick tempo. Make UA's front seven chase you around and limit the power/size they have.
Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the offensive philosophy adapting. We want to impose our will on teams. Which will work for about 8 or 9 games on our schedule. But it won't beat the likes of Alabama anytime soon.
LSU should have learned from how Ole Miss & Ohio State have beaten UA. Spread them out and make them play quick tempo. Make UA's front seven chase you around and limit the power/size they have.
Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the offensive philosophy adapting. We want to impose our will on teams. Which will work for about 8 or 9 games on our schedule. But it won't beat the likes of Alabama anytime soon.
This post was edited on 1/13/16 at 3:30 pm
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